T-Mobile Retentions

Bingolingo

I think the other networks will be doing 4g this year. As it turns out EE have run an expensive trial which the other networks have benefitted from in terms of being able to gauge demand to help determine how much they should pay for 4g spectrum.

I'm also doubtful the revenue for 4g customers is 3x that of the revenue from Orange and T-Mobile customers.

As for the retentions offers, it's not just the EE group which are offering poor terms for renewal, it's most major networks.

Padders

Bingolingo wrote: »

I think the other networks will be doing 4g this year.

I gather EE are already up to 45% of population after 4 months. I was reading today that O2 were talking end of 2015 for 98% (I'm out in the sticks, so that number is important to me!). Even the 4G auctions don't seem to be ending until June, with more in 2014. I understand that the other networks have to roll an almost new infrastructure should they win an auction, so it's going to take that much longer in the real world.

Bingolingo wrote: »

I'm also doubtful the revenue for 4g customers is 3x that of the revenue from Orange and T-Mobile customers.

An equivalent EE tariff is 2.7x my current Orange tariff.

Bingolingo wrote: »

As for the retentions offers, it's not just the EE group which are offering poor terms for renewal, it's most major networks.

I'll have to bow to your superior knowledge there, but I find Orange retentions going from the most competitive in the open market to the least EXACTLY when EE turns up as a coincidence impossible to believe.

mije1983

Padders wrote: »

An equivalent EE tariff is 2.7x my current Orange tariff.

Unlimited mins, texts and 1GB data, SIM only, is £20 on Vodafone, and T-Mobile and Orange standard offers seem to be similar if not more expensive than Vodafone.

The equivalent tariff on EE is £26. So I would say it is reasonably priced in comparison. (Whether 1GB is sufficient on a 4G network is another point )

I'm guessing your Orange deal is a retention offer so it's going to skew the figures as retention deals are usually superior to standard deals.

Padders wrote: »

I'll have to bow to your superior knowledge there, but I find Orange retentions going from the most competitive in the open market to the least EXACTLY when EE turns up as a coincidence impossible to believe.

Just check out the other networks retention threads on here. I read a post on the Vodafone thread earlier where the poster said they were spending nearly £2400 on line rental over 6 lines yet they couldn't get Vodafone to knock £99 off the upfront cost of a phone they wanted.

Bingolingo

Padders wrote: »

I gather EE are already up to 45% of population after 4 months. I was reading today that O2 were talking end of 2015 for 98% (I'm out in the sticks, so that number is important to me!). Even the 4G auctions don't seem to be ending until June, with more in 2014. I understand that the other networks have to roll an almost new infrastructure should they win an auction, so it's going to take that much longer in the real world.

From what I've heard (from vodafone and O2 employees) the infrastructure is there and will be operational as soon as the auction ends and licences are issued. I think the 3 network will be, partially, 4G by September as per the OFCOM condition of EE having to give up part of their 1800mhz band for 4G.

It was the same with 3G when it was new - networks rolled it out gradually. My point is that other networks will provide 4g this year and probably on a scale not too far behind EE. EE do not have a 2 year monopoly as you said.

As for EE 4G tariffs making 2.7x the revenue of T-Mob and Orange tariffs - I'll have to bow to your superior knowledge there.

crank_girl

I got given EE for free as I mentioned in my post above. So not so sure they're desperate to get rid of existing customers as suggested.

Padders

mije1983 wrote: »

Unlimited mins, texts and 1GB data, SIM only, is £20 on Vodafone, and T-Mobile and Orange standard offers seem to be similar if not more expensive than Vodafone.

The equivalent tariff on EE is £26. So I would say it is reasonably priced in comparison. (Whether 1GB is sufficient on a 4G network is another point )

Maybe I've got it wrong, but I need 300 mins, 50 texts, 1GB data and a phone = £41 on EE - 2.7x my current Orange tariff. Personally I find 3G quite adequate for my needs, and as you say, the 4G data caps make data streaming unviable, so I fail to see the point of 4G, let alone paying almost 3 times for the privilege!

This takes me back to the point that the inappropriately low 4G data caps are there because the EE/Orange/T-Mobile infrastructure doesn't have the capacity. Where do they get some of the shortfall for their high revenue EE customers? By getting rid of their comparatively low revenue T-Mobile and Orange customers....

mije1983

Padders wrote: »

Maybe I've got it wrong, but I need 300 mins, 50 texts, 1GB data and a phone = £41 on EE - 2.7x my current Orange tariff.

Does your current tariff give you unlimited minutes and texts (even though you said you don't need them)? If not it isn't a like for like comparison and is the phone you got with it 4G enabled?

The nearest equivalent to the EE deal you mentioned on Orange's website is £41 a month for 900 minutes, unlimited texts and 1GB data. Yes you get a better selction of phones on Orange, but there is always going to be a premium for a new product like 4G, but in general it isn't 3 times the current equivalent asking price.

So was your tariff a retention deal?

Padders

mije1983 wrote: »

Does your current tariff give you unlimited minutes and texts (even though you said you don't need them)? If not it isn't a like for like comparison and is the phone you got with it 4G enabled?

You're missing the point (or more likely, I'm not making very well).

- Ofcom gives EE a temporary 4G monopoly "in the interests of consumers".
- EE has problems with data capacity, hence the ridiculously low data allowances.
- Taking myself as I imagine a non atypical T-Mobile/Orange customer with a reasonable retention deal. I'm wildly guessing they're making 10% margin on me. For same 1GB data allowance EE gets 2.7x the revenue from their EE customer. So, allowing for some hardware costs at the base stations, an EE customer must be worth around 10x more in profit than a T-Mobile/Orange customer for the same data capacity.
- EE arrives and the T-Mobile/Orange retention deals disappear.
- Ipso facto EE are winding down T-Mobile/Orange to get hold its data capacity for their far, far, far more profitable EE customers.
- EE dumping on their T-Mobile/Orange client base clearly isn't in the interest of these consumers.

So, Ofcom, you created this mess, what are you going to do about it?

PaulusT

Deal I was offered:

12 month contract sim-only
£10/month
Unlimited Everything. (mins, texts, data)

What happened:

I decided that Virgin Mobile £12/month sim-only was pretty good.

I rang up T-mobile and asked for my PAC. I told them what I was switching to and they couldn't match it at all, so I just asked for my PAC.

Soon after I got called back by some "special" retentions department and got offered the above deal.

Includes voicemail. Picture messages are not included. 3G only (not 4G).

I read somewhere that data is being limited to 4 or 5Mbps, but I don't think that will really affect me. Other than that, I will report back if there are any catches that I come across.

tofu

I am currently on a 24 months "Pay monthly 10" plan, which will expire in May. For £10 per month, the plan gives me 100 minutes / 100 texts and, crucially, unlimited internet including tethering. My bills usually run to £15-25 per month, as I make a few international calls and occasionally use the "Euro Internet boosters".

When I signed up, I used Martin's advice to call, and got a free motorola defy handset, which I'd be happy to keep. However, judging from your latest comments, it's unlikely that they'll even let me continue with my current plan, sim-only? For now, at least there seems to be no sign of 4G coming to my area, so perhaps t-mobile will show some mercy...