The woman at the office.

Guest101

Alice_Walker wrote: »

This comment riled me, it's not a nice thing to say about a woman. Why would he be flirting with a woman with such low standards? I doubt she is anything of the sort, but he said it to deflect the blame from himself.

Some counsellors do offer reduced rates for those that cannot afford it otherwise. Also you should be able to access services through the NHS, you can usually self refer, although there may be a long waiting list. It does sound like you need someone to talk to.

Why's it not a nice thing to say? What's wrong with having fun and sleeping around? Perhaps her standards are very high? What does that say about the husband, if she has 'low standards' and the OP married the guy?! - Very presumptuous of you

itsanne

Guest101 wrote: »

So who is responsible for your feelings?

Who is responsible? At one level no one is; at a different level all sorts of people may be - partners, children, neighbours, work colleagues .......... However, precisely because they are feelings, I do not see how people can be responsible for their own. That suggests everything we feel is under our control. In the main we cannot help how we feel. (Depending on the circumstances, we can try to alter it.)

People can be responsible for things like remaining in a situation which makes them unhappy. To that extent I would accept that there can be a degree of control, but that's taking a fairly extreme example.

It's the other part I disagree so strongly with.

System

Guest101 wrote: »

In what way?


Being upset, being offended, being angry - all choices


I'm not responsible for how you feel, You are. This feeling victimised all the time is frankly ludicrous.


Take ownership of your mind, body and soul.

Maybe its because i care about other people as well as myself. Its not in my nature to intentionally hurt someone.

Guest101

itsanne wrote: »

Who is responsible? At one level no one is; - I'd say at all levels. at a different level all sorts of people may be - partners, children, neighbours, work colleagues - really, all those people are responsible for how you feel? how you have reacted to something? .......... However, precisely because they are feelings, I do not see how people can be responsible for their own. - Because feelings are unique to that person. What upsets you, doesn't upset me. What angers you doesn't anger me. etc. etc .etc. That suggests everything we feel is under our control. In the main we cannot help how we feel. (Depending on the circumstances, we can try to alter it.) - Ofcoure you can, unless you're an emotional wreck and cant keep your feelings in check.

People can be responsible for things like remaining in a situation which makes them unhappy. To that extent I would accept that there can be a degree of control, but that's taking a fairly extreme example.

It's the other part I disagree so strongly with.

So it's your fault if your partner is angry? - That's a very old school way of seeing the world

Guest101

Judi wrote: »

Maybe its because i care about other people as well as myself. Its not in my nature to intentionally hurt someone.

Nor mine, but that's not what I said.


Intentionally hurting someone, going out of your way to abuse someone deliberately. - these things are against the law, for very valid reasons.


But that is not the same as being responsible for how you feel. How you react.

Alice_Walker

Guest101 wrote: »

Why's it not a nice thing to say? What's wrong with having fun and sleeping around? Perhaps her standards are very high? What does that say about the husband, if she has 'low standards' and the OP married the guy?! - Very presumptuous of you

When used in a male context, sleeping around is seen as a good thing.

When used in a female context, sleeping around is seen as a bad thing - I'm sure you can think of several derogatory terms for such a woman. That's not my judgement, I couldn't give a fig either way, but in general (and in this context) it is not something that is said in a complimentary way.

Your last sentence makes no sense. I stated that the husband had made it up, as he would not be flirting with a woman that he claims to have such low standards.

Candyapple

SarahandherCat wrote: »

Basically, *somehow* my husband admitted he had been flirting with woman at the office, I was teasing him about a girl I know that works there as she is young (as we are ish 20's) and whilst I always had a niggling thought in the back of my head about it I trusted him and put it to one side but I'm not the most confident person so I admit it came up in conversation from time to time - if only to put my mind at ease.

Here's where it gets interesting, turns out it wasn't even her he was referring to. After alooot of pushing and prodding I find out there is not one, but TWO female sales reps that come into his office that he has been flirting with - one in his words 'isn't a big deal' but again after a lot of prodding I find out that the other one has basically been coming onto him, and as he puts it 'he didn't close the door', admits he has been flirting with her, is sexually attracted to her, has thought about cheating on me 'briefly' (but wouldn't do that...again so he says)

He's genuinely a good guy, were a family of 4 with two very young kids but I've always known he was a bit of a 'lad' and always checking girls out. I didn't really used to care, I used to say as long as I was the one he was coming home to then whatever. He's an AMAZING dad, we have a great sex life (admittedly with 2 little kids its not always easy to find time) and I honestly felt like we were happy. OK I work a lot and we could have spent more time with each other - I do get stressed out as I've got a lot on but I'm quite laid back in general and not one to moan at him or give him any grief, perhaps we just lost touch a bit but I always thought we both knew what was important - our family.

He says that he felt guilty when she basically made a move, and that he realised he'd taken it to far and that he felt bad knowing I was at home looking after the kids (although at this point, he didn't basically say 'actually I'm happily married'). He realises he's made a mistake. He is 100% only interested in her in a sexual way, and hasn't emotionally cheated on me although he does 'get on with her really well' it's a laugh and a joke sort of way.

The thing is, even *if* I could forgive him, and I'm a reasonable person - I understand our minds take us to places we can't control and that there is a big difference between acting and thinking things, although yes he has over-stepped that mark as admits to flirting with her and giving her the wrong impression.

As I was about to say with the above, I've had a lot of issues with trust with him over the years, he lies about stupid little things that don't matter and I've never been able to trust him because of this, if your going to lie about the little things when does it stop?

I'm finding this so hard to deal with, because we DO have such a great relationship other then the trust issue and now this, I don't want this to end - we've got two little kids together who I love more then anything in the world. But I'm going insane with worry and I'm paranoid that he's going to do something stupid, if not this girl then what about the next? What if he carrys on but doesn't tell me? Or what I mostly believe may happen, is he will try to ignore her for a few occasions but slowly revert back to his normal 'joke and banter' self and end up flirting with her again. As I say I'm not the most confident person and this is my worst nightmare come true (bar him actually kissing/sleeping with someone) I thought we were better then this.

How do I move forward if I can't trust him? How to I begin to trust someone if all they have done is lie, and now this?

He's admitted he felt guilty and he's saying he's never thought about leaving me and wants to make this work more then anything in the world - he's said he's going to e-mail her tomorrow and basically make it clear he doesn't want to talk to her and only have a professional relationship, he's offered to leave his job and find something else (I'm sort of on the fence with this, because whilst I would like him away from this woman, a new job will mean different people and the same concern, I guess I need to trust him full stop), he's also said he's going to talk to his boss tomorrow and see what he suggests, hoping his boss will deal with her in future and perhaps keep her out the office as much (she's a sales rep so on the road working at different depots to.)

I'm seriously considering counselling(for me), not something I would ever really want to do but I'm so down and depressed and my mind just thinks of crazy things that are so unlikely to happen but I can't shake the thought out my head. :(

ETA: 'Made a move' basically as he puts it she was basically saying her marriage wasn't working out and making it clear he'd have a chance.

Sounds like you both need counselling individually, and also together as a couple. Have you looked to see if your GP can refer you? If that’s not possible, then although £40 may seem like a lot to you now, you will need to make sacrifices in your lives in order to accommodate the cost. Those £40 sessions may mean the difference in your marriage going the distance – or ending.

If he lies about little things, that usually implies low self-esteem, which would tie-in with a roving eye/flirty banter. You mention that you were both in your 20s and you have 2 young kids, he might be having a pre mid-life crisis so to speak where the thought of other women still finding him attractive boosts his ego. Given that most guys in their 20s these days are still playing the field and you’d be hard pushed to find those who are not only married, but have 2 young kids as well before the age of 30, perhaps he feels as though he is missing out on his youth?

Your husband sounds like a cake-eater who just wants sex on the side, as well as with you. Some men are just like this and regardless of having a ‘happy home’ will still seek out other women to fulfil their needs. Even if you were having fantastic sex 10 times a day, it wouldn’t matter. He would still need to have sex with other women. The issue lies with him – not you. Even though he has ‘harmlessly flirted’ with other women, he has even admitted to you that he was attracted to this other woman ‘100% in a sexual way’. His only redeeming quality is that nothing further happened, and this is where he needs to speak to a professional regarding why he thought it ok to overstep the boundary in the first place. http://toyboywarehouse.com/blog/cheating-can-cake-eat/

Either way, no trust = relationship is dead in the water.

You will end up driving yourself insane with constant doubts and worries and arguments will ensue where you might find yourself questioning where he’s been/who with etc.

You have to either learn to forgive his past mistakes, lies etc. and move on and learn to trust him again, or divorce. There is no middle ground because again, once trust is lost, it is almost impossible to get back – not without a lot of hard work from both parties and forgiveness / counselling to explore underlying issues and what lead to the lack of trust etc.


Some stats for you (yes I know your partner hasn’t had an affair, however you are still feeling betrayed): A marriage takes an average of 5 years to fully recover from an affair (This includes not only healing process but feeling happy again). 66% stay, 33% divorce once found out. From those 66% who stay, only 25% judge their relationship satisfying/happy. At the end only 15% happily recover...anyway just stats take it with a grain of salt…every case is different.

comeandgo

This poor guy, I don't believe he has done anything wrong and his wife is nagging him to tell her his thoughts and deeds and words. You sound very insecure, you do need counselling I think.

Guest101

Alice_Walker wrote: »

When used in a male context, sleeping around is seen as a good thing. - Why? Are you offering this as your personal opinion or suggesting something wider?

When used in a female context, sleeping around is seen as a bad thing - I'm sure you can think of several derogatory terms for such a woman. - That's awfully backwards thinking. I don't see a woman who sleeps around as a negative. From a personal view point I'd rather be with someone experienced than not. That's not my judgement, I couldn't give a fig either way, but in general (and in this context) it is not something that is said in a complimentary way. - Well it is your judgment, stand behind your words.

Your last sentence makes no sense. I stated that the husband had made it up, as he would not be flirting with a woman that he claims to have such low standards.

No, what you said was that a woman who sleeps around has low standards, by proxy the person she is 'targeting' must be of low quality - you are speaking about the OPs husband.

Alice_Walker

Guest101 wrote: »

No, what you said was that a woman who sleeps around has low standards, by proxy the person she is 'targeting' must be of low quality - you are speaking about the OPs husband.

My comments were quite clear, I'm sure the OP is more than capable of understanding the point I was making.

Now perhaps you could stop derailing the thread? The OP did ask you politely several hours ago and for some reason you persist. Your posts are not helpful.