The woman at the office.

Guest101

Angry_Bear wrote: »

Intentionally hurting someone's feelings is not, generally speaking, against the law! - Causing someone to feel harassment, alarm and distress is against the law. I would say bullying, or deliberately hurting someone would come under that.

But I think the point people are trying to make, is that if you completely ignore, discount, or fail to consider how YOUR actions will affect other people (and their feelings) then you are abdicating responsibility for your actions.
Of course, sometimes people will react in an unexpected way, but surely you should at least consider the way YOU would feel in their position. It's basic human decency and I think you're being disingenuous by suggesting you don't think that is the case.

I disagree. I have my set of morals and views and feelings and I wont be subjugating those for other people.


I'm not deliberately cruel or mean, just hold other to the same standards I hold myself. If they don't like it they are ofcourse free to disengage.

Izadora

SarahandherCat wrote: »

This is what worries me and what is most likely going to be the outcome, I'm going to drive myself insane with the doubts and worries that we will end up breaking up in long run.

I'm in no way trying to apportion blame here but do you think your issues with trusting him come more from your own insecurities or his actions?

I know that generally it's going to be a combination of the two and certainly is within my relationship but knowing that some of it comes from my own issues around trusting people does sometimes help me to calm down when I start doubting everything.

I can see why you'd be annoyed and upset but I also think you should try to focus on the fact that even when it was offered on a plate to him he didn't actually take it. I'm not saying that justifies taking flirting too far but at least it's something you can take heart from.

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth

Give the locksmith a call.

Guest101

itsanne wrote: »

1 We'll have to agree to differ then. (I suspect we're thinking along very different lines as to what "level" means. I'm meaning it a bit like a layer.) - I think a person is always responsible for their feelings. I might feel bad if they're upset, but I wont accept responsibility for accidentally causing upset.

2 You've not noticed the word "may". It's important. Not all have any bearing on how I feel. For a start I have no work colleagues ..... I was giving examples of some of the people who may have a bearing on how someone, a generic someone, feels. - I think this is just being semantics to be honest. May or not, I disagree.

A more concrete example: There have been numerous threads about the stress caused by antisocial neighbours. Where there is an aggressive or intimidating neighbour, I fail to see how it is possible not to say that s/he is not responsible for any anxiety, fear, apprehension etc caused. - But that is deliberate, which is totally different. It is abuse rather than a by product of every day life.

How someone reacts and how s/he feels are not the same thing. - perhaps not, but its an indication.

3 I agree with what you say here, but that doesn't make us responsible for these feelings. They're still outwith our control. - I disagree, but perhaps i'm not in control of my feelings than others.

4 Wow! That's not half a sweeping statement! So someone upset by a break up or a death is simply an emotional wreck? It's not always possible to alter things. For once I'll use a personal example. My son has very serious mental health problems. What's going on with him can play havoc with how I feel, but there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. That doesn't make m an emotional wreck but there's no "of course you can" with regards to changing how I feel when things are bad. - Not at all. As I said, feelings can be totally justified. And to be honest they don't need to be justified. But we shouldn't blame other for those feelings. I've had people die, of course im sad, but I accept those are my feelings. I don't expect my friends to be sad with me. I don't blame others for the way I feel.

5 You don't half see things in black and white. I think most things are varying shades of grey. - It was an example to facilitate my point.

I'm trying to remember when my husband was last angry with me before deciding on whether it was my "fault" or not, but haven't come up with the answer. Would his being happy be my fault too?


If having consideration for other people's feelings is old school, I'll accept the criticism with pride.

I think you've missed my point. I'm saying it's NOT your fault if he's angry, happy, sad, whatever.

Guest101

Izadora wrote: »

But, to me, that is very different from:



I don't think it is at all different. Just because I understand a response, doesn't mean I take blame or praise for it. It's still his choice to be angry, sad or whatever.

I don't believe they are all choices. If I cheated on him then being upset wouldn't be a choice that he'd consciously make - Ofcourse it would be, he could be angry rather than sad, he could be happy rather than sad, you cant predict that response. , it's just what he'd be. Whether he then wallowed in that sadness or worked on getting over it is where I believe choice comes into it. The reaction before that is, in my opinion, instinctive and therefore the hurt and upset that he'd feel would be my fault/responsibility and not his. - Instinctive to HIM, not to me or anyone else. If you cheated on him, knowing it would hurt him, of course you have some blame, in that it is a cruel and evil thing to do. By his feelings are still his own

That's why I don't agree with this:


If you know that your actions are going to hurt someone then it's your responsibility not to do it, not theirs not to be hurt.

I disagree. It may be the right thing to do, even if it hurts their feelings.


E.G. getting divorced, sacking from a job, etc

SarahandherCat

Izadora wrote: »

I'm in no way trying to apportion blame here but do you think your issues with trusting him come more from your own insecurities or his actions?

I know that generally it's going to be a combination of the two and certainly is within my relationship but knowing that some of it comes from my own issues around trusting people does sometimes help me to calm down when I start doubting everything.

I can see why you'd be annoyed and upset but I also think you should try to focus on the fact that even when it was offered on a plate to him he didn't actually take it. I'm not saying that justifies taking flirting too far but at least it's something you can take heart from.

A combination but a lot of it is down to his lying, but lets face it they are at work together and she puts it on a plate to him, and he didn't say no - they wern't going to sleep together then and there were they? - but he left the door open so that he could in future instead of just saying he wasn't interested. He also didn't exactly plan to tell me, it was a case that I coaxed it out of him after a slip of the tongue - although credit to him he could have made something else up on the spot and not been as forth coming, although that hasn't gone well for him in the past as he's not actually a great liar.

If they were at a hotel bar do you think he would have said no? She's not been working there that long to, so it hasn't really had chance to see if it would have progressed. Big difference.

Guest101

SarahandherCat wrote: »

A combination but a lot of it is down to his lying, but lets face it they are at work together and she puts it on a plate to him, and he didn't say no - they wern't going to sleep together then and there were they? - but he left the door open so that he could in future instead of just saying he wasn't interested. He also didn't exactly plan to tell me, it was a case that I coaxed it out of him after a slip of the tongue - although credit to him he could have made something else up on the spot and not been as forth coming, although that hasn't gone well for him in the past as he's not actually a great liar.

If they were at a hotel bar do you think he would have said no? She's not been working there that long to, so it hasn't really had chance to see if it would have progressed. Big difference.

But it hasn't progressed, don't punish him for what he hasn't done

Izadora

SarahandherCat wrote: »

A combination but a lot of it is down to his lying, but lets face it they are at work together and she puts it on a plate to him, and he didn't say no - they wern't going to sleep together then and there were they? - but he left the door open so that he could in future instead of just saying he wasn't interested.

He may not have said no but, from what you've posted, it doesn't seem like he committed to taking it any further either. Yes, he should've flat-out said that it'd gone too far but there are so many reasons why he might not have done which don't mean he actually wanted to sleep with her - he appreciated the ego-boost, he didn't know how to back out without looking stupid, he was worried he'd hurt her feelings etc.

SarahandherCat wrote: »

He also didn't exactly plan to tell me, it was a case that I coaxed it out of him after a slip of the tongue.

He could quite easily have made up a load of complete rubbish to appease you at that point but chose to be honest. If nothing had actually happened and his guilty feeling was just that it'd got a bit closer than he would've like there's no reason why I would expect him to tell you. Why would he hurt you over something which he probably saw as a non-event as nothing had actually been done?

SarahandherCat wrote: »

If they were at a hotel bar do you think he would have said no? She's not been working there that long to, so it hasn't really had chance to see if it would have progressed. Big difference.

You can't ever know that and that's where trust has to come into it. You could also choose to look at it as he could've arranged to meet her in a hotel bar after work one night but didn't. They could've found somewhere near by to go for a fumble at lunch-time but didn't. They could've gone and had a bunk-up in the bogs but didn't.

The list of "what if" scenarios is endless so, as hard as it's going to be at the moment, try to focus on the "she offered it on a plate, he didn't take it" part instead.

SarahandherCat

Guest101 wrote: »

But it hasn't progressed, don't punish him for what he hasn't done

Yes sorry, my imagination is running away again, but I still don't think I can give him credit for not actually cheating given the circumstances that the chance never arose itself.

AylesburyDuck

SarahandherCat wrote: »

Yes sorry, my imagination is running away again, but I still don't think I can give him credit for not actually cheating given the circumstances that the chance never arose itself.

But dont get so paranoid as to push him the other way, she's thinks i will so what the hell....