The woman at the office.

Izadora

Who is responsible? At one level no one is; - I'd say at all levels. at a different level all sorts of people may be - partners, children, neighbours, work colleagues - really, all those people are responsible for how you feel?

To a certain extent, of course they are. Yes, how I react to things is my responsibility but everyone should also try to be aware of how their actions affect other people.

Just because it'd be their choice to be annoyed about it doesn't mean it's fair to my colleagues if I decide not to shower for a week, stop using deodorant and subject them all to my stench.

If I decided to have sex with someone other than my boyfriend then is it entirely down to him to decide not to be upset or angry about it or does some of the responsibility rest with me?

Guest101

Alice_Walker wrote: »

My comments were quite clear, I'm sure the OP is more than capable of understanding the point I was making.

Now perhaps you could stop derailing the thread? The OP did ask you politely several hours ago and for some reason you persist. Your posts are not helpful.

1: Your back tracking. Just because you think that women who enjoy sex are of low standards, doesn't mean that society hasn't moved on from such medieval view points.


2: Threads evolve, it's a public forum and I'd appreciate if you didn't dictate to me what I can and cannot say (or in this case write)


3: Your view of my posts is noted, but (despite your ego) I doubt you speak for all of humanity. I'm sure someone finds them helpful.

barbarawright

Im finding this a bit baffling. In every office I've worked in people (or all ages) flirt with the photocopy engineer or the delivery guy or anyone really who is a regular visitor. Breaks up the monotony and I'm sure they have exactly the same conversations when they move on to their next appointment. I would imagine it leads somewhere in about 1% of cases even if there's some attraction (and again, who doesn't occasionally fancy someone else? Doesn't mean you're going to have an affair). Seriously, I think you're overthinking this

Guest101

Izadora wrote: »

To a certain extent, of course they are. Yes, how I react to things is my responsibility but everyone should also try to be aware of how their actions affect other people. - But how do I know how you'll react? I can only go along with my own views and morals, not subjugate them in favour of yours. If you are offended, that's upto you. Feel free to disengage.

Just because it'd be their choice to be annoyed about it doesn't mean it's fair to my colleagues if I decide not to shower for a week, stop using deodorant and subject them all to my stench. - You'd probably be in breach of workplace policy.

If I decided to have sex with someone other than my boyfriend then is it entirely down to him to decide not to be upset or angry about it or does some of the responsibility rest with me?

Of course its entirely up to him.


What I think you're confusing is: Are those feelings justified. Most people would think it was fine for him to be upset or angry, but it's still up to him.


His choice is to disengage from you and end the relationship.

System

But that is not the same as being responsible for how you feel. How you react.

How i react i can control. How i feel is a different matter. I am not a robot. My feelings are part of who i am. Without feelings i would be a soulless entity. A heartless one at that.

Angry_Bear

Guest101 wrote: »

Intentionally hurting someone, going out of your way to abuse someone deliberately. - these things are against the law, for very valid reasons.

Intentionally hurting someone's feelings is not, generally speaking, against the law!

But I think the point people are trying to make, is that if you completely ignore, discount, or fail to consider how YOUR actions will affect other people (and their feelings) then you are abdicating responsibility for your actions.
Of course, sometimes people will react in an unexpected way, but surely you should at least consider the way YOU would feel in their position. It's basic human decency and I think you're being disingenuous by suggesting you don't think that is the case.

Izadora

Guest101 wrote: »

What I think you're confusing is: Are those feelings justified. Most people would think it was fine for him to be upset or angry, but it's still up to him.

But, to me, that is very different from:

Guest101 wrote: »

Being upset, being offended, being angry - all choices

I don't believe they are all choices. If I cheated on him then being upset wouldn't be a choice that he'd consciously make, it's just what he'd be. Whether he then wallowed in that sadness or worked on getting over it is where I believe choice comes into it. The reaction before that is, in my opinion, instinctive and therefore the hurt and upset that he'd feel would be my fault/responsibility and not his.

That's why I don't agree with this:

Guest101 wrote: »

No, everyone is responsible for their own feelings not those of others.

If you know that your actions are going to hurt someone then it's your responsibility not to do it, not theirs not to be hurt.

itsanne

Guest101 wrote: »

Who is responsible? At one level no one is; - I'd say at all levels.1

at a different level all sorts of people may be - partners, children, neighbours, work colleagues - really, all those people are responsible for how you feel? how you have reacted to something? 2
.......... However, precisely because they are feelings, I do not see how people can be responsible for their own. - Because feelings are unique to that person. What upsets you, doesn't upset me. What angers you doesn't anger me. etc. etc .etc. 3

That suggests everything we feel is under our control. In the main we cannot help how we feel. (Depending on the circumstances, we can try to alter it.) - Ofcoure you can, unless you're an emotional wreck and cant keep your feelings in check. 4

So it's your fault if your partner is angry? - That's a very old school way of seeing the world 5

1 We'll have to agree to differ then. (I suspect we're thinking along very different lines as to what "level" means. I'm meaning it a bit like a layer.)

2 You've not noticed the word "may". It's important. Not all have any bearing on how I feel. For a start I have no work colleagues ..... I was giving examples of some of the people who may have a bearing on how someone, a generic someone, feels.

A more concrete example: There have been numerous threads about the stress caused by antisocial neighbours. Where there is an aggressive or intimidating neighbour, I fail to see how it is possible not to say that s/he is not responsible for any anxiety, fear, apprehension etc caused.

How someone reacts and how s/he feels are not the same thing.

3 I agree with what you say here, but that doesn't make us responsible for these feelings. They're still outwith our control.

4 Wow! That's not half a sweeping statement! So someone upset by a break up or a death is simply an emotional wreck? It's not always possible to alter things. For once I'll use a personal example. My son has very serious mental health problems. What's going on with him can play havoc with how I feel, but there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. That doesn't make me an emotional wreck but there's no "of course you can" with regards to changing how I feel when things are bad.

5 You don't half see things in black and white. I think most things are varying shades of grey.

I'm trying to remember when my husband was last angry with me before deciding on whether it was my "fault" or not, but haven't come up with the answer. Would his being happy be my fault too?


If having consideration for other people's feelings is old school, I'll accept the criticism with pride.

SarahandherCat

Candyapple wrote: »

Either way, no trust = relationship is dead in the water.

You will end up driving yourself insane with constant doubts and worries and arguments will ensue where you might find yourself questioning where he’s been/who with etc.

You have to either learn to forgive his past mistakes, lies etc. and move on and learn to trust him again, or divorce. There is no middle ground because again, once trust is lost, it is almost impossible to get back – not without a lot of hard work from both parties and forgiveness / counselling to explore underlying issues and what lead to the lack of trust etc.

This is what worries me and what is most likely going to be the outcome, I'm going to drive myself insane with the doubts and worries that we will end up breaking up in long run.

I don't want to go into details here, and I have said this to him, I have a lot going on ATM and if we broke up everything is just going to be so messed up, not just family wise but financially and business wise. I've given him some time, but I guess at the end of the day if in a couple months I'm still feeling the way I do now, I'm going to have no choice but to end it.

I suppose, putting the flirting aside sort off, as a few have pointed out if I can't trust him then it's not going to work. Do I think he would cheat on me? I think he has it in him to, maybe right now he'd be to scared to but what happens next time if we have a falling out, or another woman down the line comes onto him and he's got an opening. You've hit the nail on the head, maybe just simply he's attracted to other woman and wants to sleep with them, I honestly thought we were happy so it makes sense.

All I can do is try and learn to trust him again, but I honestly don't believe it's possible - but I'm not ready to give up just yet and he says he'll find a way...

Guest101

Judi wrote: »

How i react i can control. How i feel is a different matter. I am not a robot. My feelings are part of who i am. Without feelings i would be a soulless entity. A heartless one at that.

Great, I didn't say you shouldn't have feelings.


They are your feelings, and you are responsible for them. Not me, not Ed, not Gary from 243 A Street, you.


Feelings and Morals are unique. There a certain physiological reactions that all humans have (as a general guide, assuming no 'abnormalities') which are biological, but that's separate from your consciousness.