Attention :O2 to charge for all 0844/0845/0870/0800 calls including old contracts

System

UNDERGROUND wrote: »

To settle this.... yes it is in the terms and conditions:

For O2 direct:


9.2

If we increase the Charges for the elements of the Service you are using or

change the terms and conditions of this Agreement to your significant disadvantage (in our reasonable opinion) we will give you 30 days' notice in writing before the changes take place. We will notify you as detailed in paragraph 7 above or we may notify you by text (SMS) to your Mobile Phone number and/or by email where you have supplied your email address to us for this purpose.

http://www.o2.co.uk/assets/O2HybridNav/Static-files/PDFs/newcontract.pdf


For O2 / CPW:

15.1
We may change this Agreement and the Charges at any time. If we increase our Charges for the elements of the Service you are using or change the terms and conditions of this Agreement to your significant disadvantage (in our reasonable opinion), we will give you 30 days' notice in writing before the change takes place. We will notify you as detailed in clause clause 19.7 below or we may notify you by text (SMS) to your Mobile Phone number and/or by email where you have supplied your email address to us for this purpose.

http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/commerce/servlet/gben-server-PageServer?ARTICLE=MAIN.UK.INTERNET.HELPINFO.ORDERONLINE.NETWORKTERMS.O2



Also note that they state that they only have to give you the 30 days written notice of changes if in their 'reasonable opinion' it is to your significant disadvantage. I suppose they could say that if you don't often use these NGN numbers the change is not to your significant disadvantage and they don't have to notify you in writing.

I don't agree, but just trying to cover all angles!!

Regards
UNDERGROUND

'Our Reasonable opinion' is likely to be an unfair term covered by the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regulations 1999.

As they would be acting a sole interpretor of what is/is not significant. CPW tried to use that clause with me when I cancelled due to 07744/07755 being removed last year. I said that I would not accept any negative changes & in MY reasonable opinion ANY removal of inclusive minutes were significant.

I got my PAC within days. Remember that you can dispute their decision with OTELO, which they pay for, win or lose!

pegasusuk

I called customer service last week after getting the dreaded text, and said I understood I could end my contract early because of the change to the terms and conditions to my contract.
The agent I spoke to was very nice, and said that loads of people were leaving because of this.
She also stated to my that o2 did not want to do this, but were being forced to by Ofcom, as they had a monopoly on free calls to non-geographic numbers.
She said the other mobile operators had complained, and so Ofcom were forcing o2 to make these changes.:rotfl:
I said that I did not believe that Ofcom forced them to do this, and that I believed that this was just another way to maximize their profits.

Ofcom is meant to benefit the consumer, and it states the following on it’s website. http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/sdrp/
Ofcom's Statutory Duties
Under the Communications Act 2003:
" 3(1) It shall be the principal duty of Ofcom, in carrying out their functions;
(a) to further the interests of citizens in relation to communications matters; and
(b) to further the interests of consumers in relevant markets, where appropriate by promoting competition"
I do not see anywhere in their remit, where they are meant to help mobile operators create a cartel in ripping comsumers off, by price fixing.

She suggested that I changed to simplicity, which would save me £10 per month, but that I needed to realise that I would not be eligible to upgrade until the date my existing contract would have expired, had I continued on it. She also said that simplicity was a month-to-month term, with no contract.

After reading these boards, I called again today to clarify the contract issue.
I said I had read that if I changed to simplicity I would still be bound by the remainder of my original contract, and was that the case?
The agent confirmed that I would still be bound to the time left on my current contract, and that if I left before I would have to pay the balance.
So much for a no contract month-to-month tariff then!:mad:
She said that was only for new customers, or people not already in a contract.
I asked for my PAC code, but she said I had to write in.
I asked if I could email, and she said yes, using the email address [EMAIL="disconnections242@o2.com"]disconnections242@o2.com[/EMAIL]

One final word of caution is this.
O2 have made another change to their terms and conditions, they no longer rollover unused minutes or texts.:mad:
http://www.o2.co.uk/assets/O2HybridNav/Static-files/PDFs/newcontract.pdf
5.9 Where tariffs include inclusive allowances which apply to certain calls, texts,
data or messages up to a monthly limit, unused inclusive allowances cannot be
carried forward from one month to the next unless expressly stated by us.
5.16 If you change tariffs for any reason e.g. when upgrading or moving to a
promotional offer, any unused allowances will be lost.

So if you are on a contract that currently gives you rollover minutes and text, you will lose that benefit if you change to a different contract.
I have therefore emailed them to ask for my PAC code, and told them it’s because of the changes to charges to non-geogrpahical numbers and the fact that if I move to simplicity I will lose out on by not being able to rollover any unused minutes and texts.

It is a shame because I have been happy with o2 since they were Cellnet.
I guess I need to look around now, and decide who to move to.:eek:

mobilejunkie

Pegasusik: "She also stated to my that o2 did not want to do this, but were being forced to by Ofcom, as they had a monopoly on free calls to non-geographic numbers"

Sounds like the usual b/s a company spouts when taking something away from its customers. I would have thought this smacked much more of a cartel stitch-up by the networks so none of them has an edge and they can all squeeze as much as possible from their customers. Pretty soon there won't be any difference between any of them.

dasab14

i sthere any new number that has come up to cpe up with the change in O2, plans for charging 0844 nnumbers..any number to call india ..which shall be included in the free minutes.

cdsheldon

People who are on the old BT Cellnet PUFFL plan may be interested to note the original Terms and Conditions of this plan, especially

5. “For Life” means that purchasers of a Pay UpFront For Life package will continue to enjoy all the benefits of this package, for as long as they remain connected to Pay UpFront for Life.

One of those “benefits” has been the inclusion of non-geographical numbers as part of the inclusive minutes. The withdrawal of this benefit is therefore contrary to condition 5 of the Terms and Conditions of the PUFFL package.

I have been in touch with Customer Services and they have given me a number of reasons why they can make these changes (in italics).


"Our terms and conditions state that we can make changes to the charges provided we give you 30 days notice before we change the charges. We're giving 30 days notice before we make these changes.” I agree, but I wasn’t complaining about the increase in charges.


“We're removing Non Geographical Numbers (NGNs) from the inclusive minutes for most of our existing customers from 28 September 2007. As their name suggests, NGNs are numbers like 0845 and 0870 that aren't for a particular town or city.” Yes I know, that’s what I am complaining about as being contrary to the terms and conditions of the PUFFL plan.


"We're currently the only UK network that includes calls to NGNs so this change brings us into line with the rest of the market. We've already made this change for consumer tariffs that were launched from Q2. We need to give our existing customers 30 days notice of this so we started to send letters and text messages out from 20 August 2007.” So what, I’m concerned that this is contrary to the PUFFL terms and conditions.


“The majority of our customers will be affected by this. As we're changing the terms and conditions, our customers can terminate their contracts without penalty. However all other UK networks already charge for calls to these numbers.” Why would I want to terminate my PUFFL contract and pay a monthly rental? I was happy with the contract I had.


“Our terms and conditions are updated regularly and as per our current terms and conditions you'll be charged for calling NGN's from 28 September 2007.” I don’t dispute that the general O2 terms and conditions can be updated (condition 9.1), so I asked if the terms and conditions of the PUFFL package had been changed, and if so would they send me the current terms and conditions specific to the PUFFL package.“I 'm sorry but I'm unable to send you the terms and conditions of your contract”. I can therefore only assume the original PUFFL terms and conditions still apply.

I have now escalated my complaint to the O2 Complaint Review Service.

vbnmu

pegasusuk wrote: »

I called customer service last week after getting the dreaded text, and said I understood I could end my contract early because of the change to the terms and conditions to my contract.
The agent I spoke to was very nice, and said that loads of people were leaving because of this.
She also stated to my that o2 did not want to do this, but were being forced to by Ofcom, as they had a monopoly on free calls to non-geographic numbers.
She said the other mobile operators had complained, and so Ofcom were forcing o2 to make these changes.:rotfl:
I said that I did not believe that Ofcom forced them to do this, and that I believed that this was just another way to maximize their profits.

Ofcom is meant to benefit the consumer, and it states the following on it’s website. http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/sdrp/
Ofcom's Statutory Duties
Under the Communications Act 2003:
" 3(1) It shall be the principal duty of Ofcom, in carrying out their functions;
(a) to further the interests of citizens in relation to communications matters; and
(b) to further the interests of consumers in relevant markets, where appropriate by promoting competition"
I do not see anywhere in their remit, where they are meant to help mobile operators create a cartel in ripping comsumers off, by price fixing.

She suggested that I changed to simplicity, which would save me £10 per month, but that I needed to realise that I would not be eligible to upgrade until the date my existing contract would have expired, had I continued on it. She also said that simplicity was a month-to-month term, with no contract.

After reading these boards, I called again today to clarify the contract issue.
I said I had read that if I changed to simplicity I would still be bound by the remainder of my original contract, and was that the case?
The agent confirmed that I would still be bound to the time left on my current contract, and that if I left before I would have to pay the balance.
So much for a no contract month-to-month tariff then!:mad:
She said that was only for new customers, or people not already in a contract.
I asked for my PAC code, but she said I had to write in.
I asked if I could email, and she said yes, using the email address [EMAIL="disconnections242@o2.com"]disconnections242@o2.com[/EMAIL]

One final word of caution is this.
O2 have made another change to their terms and conditions, they no longer rollover unused minutes or texts.:mad:
http://www.o2.co.uk/assets/O2HybridNav/Static-files/PDFs/newcontract.pdf
5.9 Where tariffs include inclusive allowances which apply to certain calls, texts,
data or messages up to a monthly limit, unused inclusive allowances cannot be
carried forward from one month to the next unless expressly stated by us.
5.16 If you change tariffs for any reason e.g. when upgrading or moving to a
promotional offer, any unused allowances will be lost.

So if you are on a contract that currently gives you rollover minutes and text, you will lose that benefit if you change to a different contract.
I have therefore emailed them to ask for my PAC code, and told them it’s because of the changes to charges to non-geogrpahical numbers and the fact that if I move to simplicity I will lose out on by not being able to rollover any unused minutes and texts.

It is a shame because I have been happy with o2 since they were Cellnet.
I guess I need to look around now, and decide who to move to.:eek:

Some idiots at O2 are misleading people in believing that the simplicity tariff = simplicity contract! And I was about to fall into it as well! grrr...
I hope, like you, everybody else comes to realise what a mess the simplicity deal is!
O2 had a monopoly on NGN!!!! what a load of BS!!!
How is that a monopoly? The mobile network mkt is a seriously competitive one and any network who wanted to offer it is more than welcome to. What O2 are doing is trying to maximise revenue.
The truth is, O2 hadn't planned on the amount of people who would stick a finger at them! This will carry on beyond these 28days as everyone else who was not able to cancel, for whatever reason, will do so at their next chance, i.e end of contract term!

vbnmu

cdsheldon wrote: »

People who are on the old BT Cellnet PUFFL plan may be interested to note the original Terms and Conditions of this plan, especially

5. “For Life” means that purchasers of a Pay UpFront For Life package will continue to enjoy all the benefits of this package, for as long as they remain connected to Pay UpFront for Life.

One of those “benefits” has been the inclusion of non-geographical numbers as part of the inclusive minutes. The withdrawal of this benefit is therefore contrary to condition 5 of the Terms and Conditions of the PUFFL package.

I have been in touch with Customer Services and they have given me a number of reasons why they can make these changes (in italics).


"Our terms and conditions state that we can make changes to the charges provided we give you 30 days notice before we change the charges. We're giving 30 days notice before we make these changes.” I agree, but I wasn’t complaining about the increase in charges.


“We're removing Non Geographical Numbers (NGNs) from the inclusive minutes for most of our existing customers from 28 September 2007. As their name suggests, NGNs are numbers like 0845 and 0870 that aren't for a particular town or city.” Yes I know, that’s what I am complaining about as being contrary to the terms and conditions of the PUFFL plan.


“Our terms and conditions are updated regularly and as per our current terms and conditions you'll be charged for calling NGN's from 28 September 2007.” I don’t dispute that the general O2 terms and conditions can be updated (condition 9.1), so I asked if the terms and conditions of the PUFFL package had been changed, and if so would they send me the current terms and conditions specific to the PUFFL package.“I 'm sorry but I'm unable to send you the terms and conditions of your contract”. I can therefore only assume the original PUFFL terms and conditions still apply.

I have now escalated my complaint to the O2 Complaint Review Service.

Damn!!! you got a mighty good case there. If am right, you could drag this much further...much much further!! hehe...loving it!
Keep us informed. cheers

vbnmu

dasab14 wrote: »

i sthere any new number that has come up to cpe up with the change in O2, plans for charging 0844 nnumbers..any number to call india ..which shall be included in the free minutes.

Uhh...not sure what u mean matey!

jswaminathanuk

i think text can be deemed as in writing. email / text are eform of letter there is an argument for text as writing.
I haven't seen their T&C but I can suggest u to call / mail / write them and say that u wont accept text as informing by writing. it has to be a proper message addressed to you along with detail such as your mobile number / account number so you can know that it is from O2 not a spam.
(What an idea)

Once you send them keep a copy for urself they can't argue as you have only asked them to provide information so you can be sure that it is not a spam. it will take them another a month to reply to your letter and then your 1 month will start and you enjoy this extended period.
THis is an advice to everyone who want to have 08 calls for extended period. O2 will charge you for 08 number but then you can get it refunded as your 30 days will start from the day you recieve letter.
Thanks to thesaint whose post suggested me this idea.
Although it will have an hasstle to get the money back but worth doing it.
I am not a legal person just throwing in idea it is upto you to see what is best for u.

thesaint wrote: »

When you say "I believe this is mentioned in the T&C"(With a sarcastic smilie) is it, or isn't it?

I have received the text, no letter. I maintain that a text is not an acceptable way to vary my t's & c's.

jswaminathanuk

vbnmu,
there are 084xxx numbers through wich you can make international calls. as 084xxx were included in free minutes dasab is lookin gfor a replacement.

dasab...
answer is no.
there might come some alternative no but not at the moment.

vbnmu wrote: »

Uhh...not sure what u mean matey!