Yet another Parking Notice Charge at Doncaster Airport

Giant_Hogweed · 7 June 2015 at 10:03AM

I've just yesterday (dated 04-06-2015) received one of these on the same road at Doncaster airport under similar circumstances to locknation on another thread, driver on way there, lost bearings slightly, stopped for about a minute (off the road in an unused access entrance) googled airport, regained bearings and drove off into the short stay car park. Only other vehicle on road was said white van obviously with camera.
I've read the newbie thread and a few others but the advice seems contradictory. On the newbie thread it says appeal and I believe there's a draft letter to send whereas on a few other threads it says ignore them (the company is VCS Ltd, £60 charge rising to £100 after 28 days).
I haven't acted yet, they don't know who the driver was so will someone advise which is the best course of action please? I've been trawling this forum for the last couple of days and am now more confused than when I started!
Thanks

Redx · 7 June 2015 at 10:15AM

the fact is that you should always appeal to the PPC using the template letter , once you have received the NTK in the post (for the contravention that the anpr camera car "snapped" you for on that road)

but you dont admit who was driving as its those details they would dearly love to know

assume they refuse your appeal in their reply, you then have the choice of appealing to the kangaroo court (the IAS) , or not appealing

if you appeal and lose at the IAS (80% lose), you can either pay up (not recommended) or ignore VCS and the debt collectors (for 6 years)

you could ignore all the above (for 6 years) - after 6 years the small claims statute means they cannot claim anything at all

if VCS (not any debt collectors) take you to court in those 6 years, you have the right to defend yourself in the court papers, or in court itself if it gets that far - bear in mind they can only take the driver to court, not the RK, as its not relevant land under POFA 2012 , BUT they may try it on with a claim against the RK

only VCS or the landowner can take you to court, not the debt collectors

if you appeal and its dropped, or if you win at the IAS, that is the end of the matter

if it goes to court and you win, that is likely to be the end of the matter

confusing ? , yes it is, but there again, they dont want crystal clarity on these money making sc@ms , plus there is no "silver bullet" to kill it stone dead either

try reading the parking prankster blogs about JLA and RHA , they may help you understand the sc@m going on, plus its been on various tv programs too (mainly JLA but its the same topic)

any IGNORE advice on here is mainly related to the IAS appeal (not to do it), plus to then subsequently ignore VCS or their debt collectors, you should always appeal using the template letter in the first instance, as keeper (not driver)

after the VCS appeal, some say appeal to the IAS, others say dont bother, that choice is yours to make

ps:- this other thread you read does explain all this quite well, so cant see why you are confused, other than its a confusing subject for a newbies

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5192051

The_Deep · 7 June 2015 at 11:41AM

You can also try to pin them down on the v.a.t. issue. Have they accounted for it, it is payable on contractual charges, (but not on breaches of contract), so perhaps this is a BofC, in which case they must prove that the money they want is to cover their genuine losses.

Some reading

Asthis is UKCPS it will probably be a contractual charge on whichv.a.t. is payable. Have they accounted for vat on their paperwork? If not it becomes a breach of contract and GPEOL applies More reading here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5195437=

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5087925=

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5033796=

If you suspect tax evasion go here

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/reporting-tax-evasion

Redx · 7 June 2015 at 11:48AM

its VCS , not UKCPS

Ralph-y · 7 June 2015 at 12:00PM

as per the good advice above , here is a little more reading for you .......

please read through most of the links below ( especially the last one which would be a big part of any second appeal)

it is all about Liverpool airport ..... but it is in reality the same situation

The scammers that infest JLA are in cahoots with said airport as its is a (allegedly) mutual financial arrangement ....

Go back a year or so and you would win this at a POPLA appeal ..... however in the world of PPC's they can create another appeals body (the IPC) that are a (again allegedly) kangaroo court :eek: (the IPA)

you therefore can (after reading the below) chose to wait it out , or in IMHO do the appeals as a paper trail.

VCS are about to try out their first small claims court case over such .... I predict that they will pull out before the trial ..... (update ---they they did pull the case with a few weeks a go .... wonder why?

Giant_Hogweed · 7 June 2015 at 12:36PM

Thanks everyone, and yes Redx it is bloody confusing! Not my area of expertise I'm afraid.
There is a little bit of additional stuff that may help my case, any advice on this would be welcome. Although the photo clearly shows the number plate, its not fantastic quality and nowhere are there any yellow lines on show. Also who's to say it stopped? It's just a photo of my car (driven by someone else), to all intent and purpose it was still moving, albeit very slowly. I will not ever tell them who was driving, that's also not seen on the photos.

My wife got a similar thing in a shoppers car park a number of years ago (in my car!) and replied. We were bombarded with demands for final payment, threatened with court action, but when they issued threats that the bailiffs were coming to the house alarms bells rang as even I know they cant do that. We lost a lot of sleep over it. They also misspelled my wife's name so we started to send them back 'not known at this address'. It went quiet then about 2 years later we got another demand out of the blue from a debt collecting agency. We just binned it and never heard anything else, but the advice at the time was to ignore these scams which my wife obviously didn't. Seems that has changed now.

Redx · 7 June 2015 at 12:43PM

its ANPR , not a photo, just captures the number plate details, hence your "invoice" in the post

as far as they are concerned , the "driver" broke the rules by "stopping" on the roadway, they are trying use use car park enforcement for roadway enforcement, on a site that isnt relevant land so any "stopping" should be subject to bylaws and not parking charges, which is why POFA 2012 does not apply, but they will infer that it is likely to be the RK who was driving (in all probability) , even if it wasnt

all the info you have been pointed at expands on this theme , but its pointless looking for a "silver bullet" to try to get a quick dismissal, like thousands of other people, you are acught in this con thats being going on for a few years and is widely blogged about on here, pepipoo and parking pranksters site

you will just have to get up to speed m8, all the info is here, you just need to digest it like we have all had to

they have 6 years to pursue these invoices, both this one and any others you have had in the last 6 years, so the lack of action does not mean that it has "gone away"

Northlakes · 7 June 2015 at 1:15PM

It's just 21st century version of !!!!!! Turpin. Landowners just rent out the best spots.
Unfortunately these highway robbers have managed to convince a few judges that they have to do it in order to survive and call it commercial justification.

Mind you PPI was thought to be legal at one time as was fiddling foreign exchange trading. FIFA was supposed to be head authority in world football not a worldwide fiddle.

Giant_Hogweed · 7 June 2015 at 2:16PM

Thanks again, I'm going to use the template letter and send them an appeal, see what happens. I'll have to sit down and study other cases etc if they push onto the next phase, not paying them though, been to court in the past and I'm not phased by it so if they want to go that far then so be it.

In all honesty though, it makes me wonder why these places aren't burned to the ground on a regular basis as their address is on the invoice.

And its only 20 miles from where I live...............:-/

Coupon-mad · 7 June 2015 at 2:25PM

Mick_Rog wrote: »

Thanks again, I'm going to use the template letter and send them an appeal, see what happens.

They will reject and they'll tell you to appeal to the IAS. DON'T! Do not give the PPC the win they all get at IAS (the words 'kangaroo court' spring to mind).

Mick_Rog wrote: »

I'll have to sit down and study other cases etc if they push onto the next phase.

No you won't. DON'T bother with the IAS as everyone loses for various reasons I can't really expand on here. Just appeal using the template and leave it at that and collect the letters, checking that it never actually gets to 'Letter before Claim' stage or court papers. If it does, come back (unlikely but can happen).

moneygrabbing_bs · 1 July 2015 at 10:20PM

They seem to like this spot on the approach to Robin Hood Airport at the mo.
I just received a PCN for stopping for 15 secs just off the round about in a closed access road to check which car park I had pre-paid for! Sounds rather similar.
Just because they say you have the option to appeal to the IAS does that mean that you cant appeal to POPLA?

Yet another Parking Notice Charge at Doncaster Airport

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