Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

Steve3161981

Hi all - I have made a new thread on this, but thought I'd post it here too. My apologies for the length of it all but compared to the length of my journey it doesn't seem too bad!!

Hi,

Hoping some people on here can help with whether I am entitled to any form of compensation regarding a very long journey from Scotland to New Zealand 2 weeks ago. Apologise for the length of this, but there are a number of minor details that are fairly important eventually.

I left Edinburgh at 4:30pm on Wednesday 4 January and did not arrive in Wellington until 5:30pm on Saturday 7 January.

The flight was with Etihad Airways (plus BMI in the UK and Air New Zealand at the other end - no problem with either of them though) and was scheduled to be Edinburgh > Manchester > Abu Dhabi > Sydney > Wellington.

What I ended up with was Edinburgh > Manchester > Abu Dhabi > Singapore > Sydney > Auckland > Wellington.

All was fine and on schedule until I got to Abu Dhabi. The flight was delayed there by approximately 75 minutes, which wasn't really a huge deal, although I did have a connecting flight to get in Sydney but I was still on course to make that. When boarding the plane at Abu Dhabi, I couldn't help but notice the 'flaps/doors' on one of the engines was up and various people were looking at it. I didn't really think much of it apart from that it must be ok if we are boarding the plane.

Around 4 hours into the flight I woke up to hear the Captain explaining that we were now having to divert to Singapore as there was a problem with one of the engines (an oil leak). Obviously this was not the type of news you want to hear halfway through a flight! Apparently the plane would be fine to get us to Singapore (which was still 3 hours away).

We got to Singapore and were kept on the plane for around 60-90 minutes. Twice we received updates stating that we would get another update in 30 minutes as the engine was being checked. We were then informed that we would all have to leave the plane and take all of our belongings as they were going to perform tests on the engine and as such we could not remain on the plane.

We then waited in a gate lounge for approximately 90 minutes before being told that the plane wasn't going anywhere that night and we were all going to be put up in a hotel. The coaches to take us to the hotel were about another hour away, and some refreshments were provided in the meantime (although not much left other than cake after the initial scramble for food).

The coaches eventually arrived and took us to the hotel (Copthorne Grand Waterfront - a nice hotel to be fair). An important detail here in my story is that before the coach left, the manager came on board and what I THOUGHT I heard him say was that we could have free international calls from our room. I thought this was fair enough because at this point I hadn't been able to contact either my partner at the NZ end, or my family back in Scotland, to say what was happening.

So by the time I got into my hotel room in Singapore it was 5am local time, around 5 hours after we landed in Singapore.

At this point we had still not been told when we would be going back to the airport, or if the flight we had been on would be fixed at all.

I woke up around 1:30pm the next day, went to reception, and asked if there was any update on the flight. At this stage there was no update and I was told I would get a call to my room when there was. Not really ideal. I then went back down an hour later and spotted the manager who had been on the bus the night before. I asked him if there was an update and mentioned I was going to New Zealand. He produced a raft of papers and eventually found my name on a list of people who were booked to fly to Christchurch at 7:45pm that night on a Singapore Airlines flight. I was pretty pleased with this because it meant I'd be back in NZ sooner than if I went to Sydney and then onto NZ. He told me to be at reception for 5pm.

At 4:50pm I got a call to my room saying I needed to check out now. Fair enough I thought as I was going anyway and thought the hotel staff were just following up what I already knew.

When I checked out I was informed that Etihad were only covering ONE 3 minute international call which was absolutely not what I heard the previous night. I was then given a bill for $240 NZD (approx 30 mins of calls in total, $15 of which was for 3 x getting thru to voicemail!) and told I had to pay now and sort it out with the airline later. I didn't have time to argue as the bus was going to the airport so reluctantly paid up.

Then, as I went to get the bus I noticed that there were LOADS of people getting it, as in everyone from my flight the night before (only a few were going to NZ, the rest to Sydney). I again spotted the manager and asked if I was still going to Christchurch. He said yes, and when I got to Terminal 3 with everyone else, I would have to go to Terminal 2 for the Christchurch flight.

When I got the Singapore Airlines check-in desk, they had no record of my transfer of flights and said I had to check with Etihad, back in Terminal 3. So, off I went back to Terminal 3 where I had just come from, and found that the original flight to Sydney was now back on! So, after calling my family and partner to say I was going to Christchurch, I was now going back to Sydney as originally planned! we eventually flew out of Singapore around 8:30pm.

When I asked about my connecting flight to Wellington, I was told I needed to sort it out in Sydney. Again, hardly ideal. So, when we got to Sydney around 7am and went to the transfer desk, I found that the flight I had missed 24 hours earlier to Wellington did not even go on Saturdays and I had instead been booked on a flight to Auckland at 9:40am. When I asked about my connection to Wellington, I was told I needed to sort it out in Auckland!

When I finally made it to the domestic terminal in Auckland I found I'd been booked on a flight leaving 35 minutes later (which I did make) and evenutally got back to Wellington after having been on 6 different flights from Edinburgh!

Anyone have any advice on whether I have a case for some compensation for:

(a) the diverted flight and subsequent missed connection
(b) the telephone bill from the hotel

With regard to (a) I was happy enough that we were put up in a nice hotel, however the lack of information followed by the misinformation re: the Christchurch flight was extremely frustrating and confusing. Additionally, the fact that there appeared to be an engine issue prior to leaving Abu Dhabi makes me wonder whether it was even safe for us to get on that plane, and I heard other passengers making the same point as they had also noted the engine being looked as we boarded in Abu Dhabi.

With (b), I can potentially accept that I misheard what the manager said, however we was off down the front of the bus, I was up the back, and I thought free international calls (within reason) was fair enough considering the situation. As it was, even if I had heard him, is one 3 minute call really sufficient considering I had to call people to say that (1) I had been diverted to Singapore in the first place, and (2) to say that I had now apparently been booked on a Christchurch flight? I personally think one 3 minute call in that situation is a very poor effort on Etihad's part.

I did have travel insurance as well, and wondering if they would cover any part of the above?

I do intend to ask my insurer and Etihad about the points above, but thought I'd get a feel for things on here first before I went writing this long essay to them.

Thanks in anticipation.

budgetflyer

Sounds like a rotten journey. Unexpected things happen though. Just takes 1 sector to go wrong and its all up in the air.

Etihad seemed to look after you pretty well though , so they have fulfilled their obligations.
Travel Insurance will have some payment for the delay, probably not a lot though

Regarding the phone calls. 1 or 2 quick calls to advise family etc of your delay is reasonable and expected.
You seem to have been like a kid in a sweet factory and filled your Parka pockets. $240 worth!!! No way will they cover that.

ian41

Steve3161981 wrote: »

Hi,

Hoping some people on here can help with whether I am entitled to any form of compensation regarding a very long journey from Scotland to New Zealand 2 weeks ago

First, please delete your duplicate posting on this forum. It is unnecessary.

Sorry but you will not be entitled to any compensation for your delayed arrival under EC Reg 261/2004. The aircraft developed a tech problem in-flight and was diverted for safety reasons and will be classified (correctly) as extraordinary circumstances. Every other action is a consequence of that event and therefore compensation is not payable.

If you did not have to pay any extra money for your subsequent delayed flight to Christchurch, then you have no claim for that. If you did, you should write to Etihad and claim that sum.

Re your phone calls. Assuming that all your outward travel was under one PNR (the 6 digit booking reference) from Manchester to Christchurch, then under Article 9 Right to care of 261/2004, you would be entitled to two phone calls. Sorry but the usual expectation is that you will contact one person and they will pass on messages to other family etc by email, phone or whatever. Sharing the events of the day with your family on a hotel telephone is very expensive.

If you really feel that you were misled, then write to Etihad and they might reimburse you for the cost of some calls but on an ex-gratis basis.

Am unsure whether your recollection of the bus episode is strong enough or maybe wishful thinking - it seems very unlikely to me that any airline rep would say that and why would they?. Perhaps he said "three" and not "free"?

EC Reg 261/2004 can be found here:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004R0261:EN:HTML

You could peruse your travel insurance policy in detail - there are clauses for delayed departure (with payments of £15/20/30 per 24 hours) but rarely for delayed arrival.

Not what you wanted to hear after 2 weeks sitting on this but it is called the joy of international travel. Sorry.

Steve3161981

budgetflyer wrote: »

Sounds like a rotten journey. Unexpected things happen though. Just takes 1 sector to go wrong and its all up in the air.

Etihad seemed to look after you pretty well though , so they have fulfilled their obligations.
Travel Insurance will have some payment for the delay, probably not a lot though

Regarding the phone calls. 1 or 2 quick calls to advise family etc of your delay is reasonable and expected.
You seem to have been like a kid in a sweet factory and filled your Parka pockets. $240 worth!!! No way will they cover that.

You say $240 worth like I was on the phone for several hours - the total amount of the calls was something like 30 minutes and that was something like 4 or 5 calls (as I say, initial call to say where I was, and further calls once I had been told what was happening when I was finally told).

And, $15 of it was for 3 occasions of getting to voicemail and literally hanging up the phone after a couple of seconds!

Had I not been in Singapore, then no calls would've been needed.

Steve3161981

ian41 wrote: »

First, please delete your duplicate posting on this forum. It is unnecessary.

Sorry but you will not be entitled to any compensation for your delayed arrival under EC Reg 261/2004. The aircraft developed a tech problem in-flight and was diverted for safety reasons and will be classified (correctly) as extraordinary circumstances. Every other action is a consequence of that event and therefore compensation is not payable.

If you did not have to pay any extra money for your subsequent delayed flight to Christchurch, then you have no claim for that. If you did, you should write to Etihad and claim that sum.

Re your phone calls. Assuming that all your outward travel was under one PNR (the 6 digit booking reference) from Manchester to Christchurch, then under Article 9 Right to care of 261/2004, you would be entitled to two phone calls. Sorry but the usual expectation is that you will contact one person and they will pass on messages to other family etc by email, phone or whatever. Sharing the events of the day with your family on a hotel telephone is very expensive.

If you really feel that you were misled, then write to Etihad and they might reimburse you for the cost of some calls but on an ex-gratis basis.

Am unsure whether your recollection of the bus episode is strong enough or maybe wishful thinking - it seems very unlikely to me that any airline rep would say that and why would they?. Perhaps he said "three" and not "free"?

EC Reg 261/2004 can be found here:

You could peruse your travel insurance policy in detail - there are clauses for delayed departure (with payments of £15/20/30 per 24 hours) but rarely for delayed arrival.

Not what you wanted to hear after 2 weeks sitting on this but it is called the joy of international travel. Sorry.

Thanks for your response.

Firstly, I did not travel to Christchurch, I travelled to Wellington. I was told at one point I was going to Christchurch, but this did not materialise and I was running around Singapore Airport due to misinformation provided by Etihad.

Also, the bus episode involved the Hotel Manager who was looking after us. I am not saying he DID say 'free international calls' but at the time, I was absolutely convinced that he did say that, and I didn't really think anything of it as I just assumed we'd be entitled to that for all the problems we were having. Had I been informed at any point that such calls were $5 per minute and Etihad were only covering one 3 minute call, then I would never have stayed on the phone for a total of 30 minutes.

Having read your link, I can also say that I was definitely not offered any e-mails and was told I'd have to pay $28 for Wifi access at the hotel.

2. In addition, passengers shall be offered free of charge two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails.

Finally, I would question whether this 'technical problem' did develop in-flight, when it looked pretty clear to me, and others, that there was a problem with the engine before we left Abu Dhabi. It appears to me that they took a gamble which backfired. My point is that I believe there was an issue prior to the flight, and this was not a problem that just suddenly occured on my flight.

ian41

Steve3161981 wrote: »

Thanks for your response.

Firstly, I did not travel to Christchurch, I travelled to Wellington. I was told at one point I was going to Christchurch,

Very sorry but frankly, it's irrelevant and makes no difference whatsoever.

Also, the bus episode involved the Hotel Manager who was looking after us. I am not saying he DID say 'free international calls' but at the time, I was absolutely convinced that he did say that, and I didn't really think anything of it as I just assumed we'd be entitled to that for all the problems we were having.

But why did you think you were entitled to free international calls because of a flight safety diversion? If you felt that the Hotel Manager said "free calls" write to him

Had I been informed at any point that such calls were $5 per minute

A pound to a penny, you did not bother to look at the cost of the calls which would have been displayed in your rooom. You are being a little silly to suggest that someone should have told you that phone calls from international hotels are charged at rates like $5 per minute. Shock horror!

Finally, I would question whether this 'technical problem' did develop in-flight, when it looked pretty clear to me, and others, that there was a problem with the engine before we left Abu Dhabi. It appears to me that they took a gamble which backfired. My point is that I believe there was an issue prior to the flight, and this was not a problem that just suddenly occured on my flight

You have come here for advice but with the passage of time, your mind seems made up. Once again, even if this version is true, IMHO you will not be able to persuade a court to award you any compensation for your delay. (A side issue is the current stay in the UK.)

Frankly you are wasting your time. By all means write a letter to Etihad and they might make an ex-gratia payment or give you a voucher off future travel but you have no legal right to compensation. That was your original question if you recall?.

Steve3161981

ian41 wrote: »

Steve3161981 wrote: »

Thanks for your response.



Very sorry but frankly, it's irrelevant and makes no difference whatsoever.



But why did you think you were entitled to free international calls because of a flight safety diversion? If you felt that the Hotel Manager said "free calls" write to him



A pound to a penny, you did not bother to look at the cost of the calls which would have been displayed in your rooom. You are being a little silly to suggest that someone should have told you that phone calls from international hotels are charged at rates like $5 per minute. Shock horror!



You have come here for advice but with the passage of time, your mind seems made up. Once again, even if this version is true, IMHO you will not be able to persuade a court to award you any compensation for your delay. (A side issue is the current stay in the UK.)

Frankly you are wasting your time. By all means write a letter to Etihad and they might make an ex-gratia payment or give you a voucher off future travel but you have no legal right to compensation. That was your original question if you recall?.

Sorry, but why would I make up a story about the engine being looked at in Abu Dhabi? There's no "even if this version is true" about it - it is true, I seen it, other passengers seen it, and some took photos of it. I wish I now had.

I also thought I'd read that technical problems were not covered by 'extraordinary circumstances'?

As I believed the calls were free, why would I look up the cost? I recall looking at a leaflet by the phone, there were no rates displayed. I obviously didn't think it would be cheap, but I also didn't expect to pay $5 for 3 seconds of a voicemail message at the other end. I didn't know what I was entitled to, and had the manager not came on the bus and said what he did, I would not have known I was entitled to any calls because I have not been delayed in this way before. Having been inconvenienced to the tune of 27 hours, I didn't think that free calls from the hotel room was the bargain of the century to be honest.

ian41

Steve3161981 wrote: »

ian41 wrote: »

Sorry, but why would I make up a story about the engine being looked at in Abu Dhabi? There's no "even if this version is true" about it - it is true

You are being pedantic, I was comparing two possible variations. In doing that, you ignored totally the important part of the sentence which read

IMHO you will not be able to persuade a court to award you any compensation for your delay. (A side issue is the current stay in the UK.)

So either way i.e whether the delay could have been in Abu Dhabi or as it turned out in Singapore, I do not believe that you have a case to take to court and win. Is that clear enough?

The fact that some pax took photos of ground staff inspecting an engine or engine cover at Abu Dhabi becomes irrelevant as either the aircraft Captain and/or ground personnel came to the conclusion that there was no safety risk - and the aircraft departed from Abu Dhabi.

By all means, and having re-checked your PNR carefully as previously advised, write to Etihad, the hotel manager or take action through the Sheriff's Court against Etihad - or move on as you see fit. It does not matter to me.

On any forum, advice can be ignored or accepted graciously. As you have said, this was a first for you but others on this forum have experienced many delays over the years.

You should do what you want but I do not have any further new advice to offer.

Emma2012

I truly hope some one more knowledgeable than myself can help and give me some advice regarding my delayed flight which I have been pursuing compensation for since the event in October 2011.

I have contacted Sri Lanka airlines twice regarding this matter, they have only got back to me only once with a very non dis-script response basically saying 'its not their problem and they will not compensate'.
The second e-mail I sent to Sri Lanka airlines is as follows and reports our event in detail: - I have had no response to this since 14/12/11.


To Whom It May Concern,

I wish to make a formal complaint regarding our flight UL312 on 02/10/11 from Colombo to Kuala Lumpur in which I previously made a complaint about on 25/10/11. To confirm the event in detail I will reiterate for your reference:

Myself and my partner had booked flight UL312 from Colombo to Kuala Lumpur for 07:21am with yourselves as we had a following flight on from this with Air Asia (Flight Air Asia AK364 02/10/11 - 15:45) from Kuala Lumpur to Bali.

Reasons for complaint:

1. When we were told at the check in desk in Colombo that our flight had been delayed, no one could detail when the next flight had been rescheduled for, no one would detail why the flight had been delayed. The only information that was detailed to us was to keep coming back up to the check in desk every hour for an update which we may have had to of done for hours.

2. There was absolutely no mention of being put up in accommodation and/or transportation due to your error of the flight being delayed until I highly distressed to the check in attendant that the service was disgusting and was not willing to sleep in an airport due to Sri Lankan airlines delaying our flight.

3. Free accommodation for the night was then offered to us and free transportation which is within your terms and conditions; this is NOT compensation in any shape or form. It was then provided. HOWEVER, it was then detailed a taxi would take us free of charge to our hotel - after waiting nearly 2 hours within the airport finally someone decided to drive us to the hotel which was an hour’s drive away! To clarify we have now been awaiting for over 3-4 hours before we got to the hotel!

4. At the hotel, we were still not told of what time our flight would be the next day however we were told that a coach would pick us up from the hotel at 10:00, flight 12:00 approx. We were ready in the reception from 09:00 after only a few hours’ sleep and were still there at 13:00. We were waiting in the lobby for another 4 hours - no drinking water was provided during this time and there were no ATM's in the hotel to get the appropriate currency to buy water!

5. The flight finally left at 14:30…..supposed to of been 07:21. This meant due to the delay we missed our on-going flight from Kuala Lumpur to Bali which meant we had to pay for another flight to Bali PLUS there were no further flights leaving Kuala Lumpur by the time we arrived due to your delay so had to pay to stay in a hotel for nights in Kuala Lumpur.

Within my last complaint I stressed that we wanted compensation in the flight that we had to repay for due to your delay (the flight with Air Asia) and to my absolute disgust you explained this basically was not your problem as you put us up in a hotel for the night and gave us free transport? I would like to stress, that the customer service we have encountered with your airline has been disgusting. A hotel is to be expected if you delay a flight, as an organisation that is your responsibility to look after your customers if you incur an error with a flight. HOWEVER, with poor communication, being made to wait over 2 hours for a taxi, an hour’s drive to the hotel, being given no information on the next flight and being made to wait for 4 hours in a hotel lobby after a few hours sleep with no drinking water for a coach is disgraceful. I understand that within your terms and conditions you are not willing to refund another organisations flight, but I do expect compensation for this horrendous experience incurred due to yourselves. Due to this I expect either a full refund of our flight or some other form of compensation within this price range.

I cannot stress that if this is not dealt with immediately or to the customer satisfaction requirements I will be looking to take this further and so if appropriate I request full contact details for the financial ombudsman of Sri Lankan Airlines as I am willing to take this further as legal action where necessary.

I will wait to receive your prompt response.


Basically all I really need to know is:
a) Do I officially have any grounds to stand on regarding compensation and
b) If so, how do I go about doing this?

I understand all flights within the EU are covered by CAA to claim compensation through however in this case I need to contact Sri Lanka directly. I have found their website for 'Civil Aviation Authority of Sri Lanka' however it details no information on where to go to make a claim?

Please Note: In the airport the final comment we had from a staff member of Sri Lanka airlines was that the flight was held up in Paris which is why it was delayed.

Sorry for the long thread, looking forward to hearing from you in anticipation.

richardw

Too long. Edit and stick to the facts.