Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

ian41

LutherBlisset wrote: »

Need a bit of help with this one. Newbie here - please be gentle!

A recent BA flight that I took was cancelled. We were put on the next flight that was scheduled to leave an hour later. This flight was then delayed. We arrived at our destination more than 2 hours late.

I put in a claim for compensation under the EU scheme. BA have turned this down on the following grounds:

"Your claim for compensation has been refused because our systems show that we informed you of the cancellation either on the day of departure, which may have been at the airport, or within the previous 6 days. You were offered a rerouting scheduled to leave no more than 1 hour before your original departure time, and scheduled to arrive at your final destination less than 2 hours after your original arrival time. Under EU legislation, British Airways is not liable for a compensation payment."

This may indeed be all above board and correct but I just wanted to check???

Many thanks in advance.

If you would like to give the date, flight numbers, destination and scheduled times (departure/arrival) of both flights, then I would be more than happy to check out your specific case.

I would not want you to get your hopes up. I do not believe that this will change my view unless BA did something particularly stupid.

I will expand on this further when I have your flight details.

pycroft

Hello

I hope someone can provide me an answer to the following. I was booked on an Air Europa flight to Gatwick that was cancelled (only 4 days prior to flying date) and as such I had to book an alternative flight at a cost of over 400.00 to get home. They did offer me an alternative but that was a week later.

I have written to the airline who have said that my flight was cancelled due to a strike (at the airline) and therefore this does not qualify for compensation just refund of the original ticket (around 35.00 pounds).

Is there any claim I can make - my insurance said to contact the airline

have I any options left - is it worth suing the airline or the UK travel agent.


all help will be really appreciated.



Thanks in advance



Tony

ian41

Tony

Have just been informed that you have posted similar threads three times! Perhaps you need to ask one of the Board Guides to either merge all these threads or you should delete at least two or are there more? I do not want to be answering multiple posts and most others will feel the same. So you need to get that sorted I would suggest.

=======================================================

What was the original departure and arrival airport for the cancelled flight? Are you saying that your re-routing to Gatwick cost £400 compared with £35 and that this was the only flight available within (say) 24 hours of your original return flight? Is £35 correct?

Under EC Reg 261/2004 you are protected and Air Europa had to offer you a sensible re-route option or refund/reimbursement of your original flight at your choice (I hope that you did not accept the refund/reimbursement because it is either a refund or re-routing but not both)

Here is the article

Article 8
Right to reimbursement or re-routing
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,
- a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;
(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or
(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.
2. Paragraph 1(a) shall also apply to passengers whose flights form part of a package, except for the right to reimbursement where such right arises under Directive 90/314/EEC.
3. When, in the case where a town, city or region is served by several airports, an operating air carrier offers a passenger a flight to an airport alternative to that for which the booking was made, the operating air carrier shall bear the cost of transferring the passenger from that alternative airport either to that for which the booking was made, or to another close-by destination agreed with the passenger.

If you wrote asking for compensation then Air Europa's response was probably correct. What you should have been asking for was reimbursement of the re-routing you had to arrange to get to Gatwick.

Perhaps before you write again to Air Europa, you might give the information requested at the start of this post - and then we can advise further.

beenalongday

I wonder if anyone has any advice for me?
Flew with thomson from Geneva to Gatwick on our way back from a skiing holiday with Crystal ( owned by Thomson) 2 weeks ago. Flight was delayed as there had been a lot of snow and other Crystal passengers were delayed getting to the airport ( we were there on time). We overheard cabin crew telling other passengers the plane would have to wait for all passengers it was the last Thomson Geneva- Gatwick flight of the day. We were delayed nearly 4 hours, over an hour actually on the plane, and weren't offered any refreshments - fun with a 3 year old and a 1 year old!
I wrote to Thomson using a letter template requesting €250 per passenger and have had a letter back saying:
"Article 6 'Delay' does not have any reference to Article 7 'Right to compensation'; it only refers to Article 9 'Right to care'.
The only reference in this Regulation to Article 7 is in Articles 4 & 5 - denied boarding regulations.
This information is from the Official Journal of the European Union, and what we adhere to. We do not adhere to any publications on some consumer websites, or information given by anyone else.
In addition to the above we do not support the recent decision of the ECJ as it conflicts with superior decisions already made. The ruling is vague and possibly makes all of the EU regulations invalid. We do not recognise that the law requires compensation to be paid in the event of a delay. However, we will offer all assistance to the appropriate EU and national enforcement bodies to clarify this matter.
We have done everything we can to ensure your flight took of as quickly as possible. By doing so we have fulfilled EU Regulations 261/2004 and therefore no compensation would be offered."
Sounds like a fobbing off letter to me...any advice gratefully received.
Thanks

mac54

[FONT=&quot]Ian41

many thanks for your prompt reply. I do not know correct etiquette on here so I am thanking you privately. I will email Thomas Cook and obviously I will post online how I get on.

again many thanks

Now thanking you on post. Will post TC's reply when I get it.
[/FONT]

ian41

beenalongday wrote: »

I wonder if anyone has any advice for me?
Flew with thomson from Geneva to Gatwick on our way back from a skiing holiday with Crystal ( owned by Thomson) 2 weeks ago. Flight was delayed as there had been a lot of snow and other Crystal passengers were delayed getting to the airport ( we were there on time). We overheard cabin crew telling other passengers the plane would have to wait for all passengers it was the last Thomson Geneva- Gatwick flight of the day. We were delayed nearly 4 hours, over an hour actually on the plane, and weren't offered any refreshments - fun with a 3 year old and a 1 year old!
I wrote to Thomson using a letter template requesting €250 per passenger and have had a letter back saying:
"Article 6 'Delay' does not have any reference to Article 7 'Right to compensation'; it only refers to Article 9 'Right to care'.
The only reference in this Regulation to Article 7 is in Articles 4 & 5 - denied boarding regulations.
This information is from the Official Journal of the European Union, and what we adhere to. We do not adhere to any publications on some consumer websites, or information given by anyone else.
In addition to the above we do not support the recent decision of the ECJ as it conflicts with superior decisions already made. The ruling is vague and possibly makes all of the EU regulations invalid. We do not recognise that the law requires compensation to be paid in the event of a delay. However, we will offer all assistance to the appropriate EU and national enforcement bodies to clarify this matter.
We have done everything we can to ensure your flight took of as quickly as possible. By doing so we have fulfilled EU Regulations 261/2004 and therefore no compensation would be offered."
Sounds like a fobbing off letter to me...any advice gratefully received.
Thanks

What an unnecessarliy snotty letter.

There is currently a "stay" in England and Wales regarding legal action for compensation payments for long delays (over 3 hours), pending "clarification" by the ECJ. Until this is handed down, all UK based airlines (as well as some but not all others flying out of the UK) are refusing to consider compensation claims for long flight delays including yours. In the rest of the EU, airlines are meeting claims for compensation due to delays in excess of 3 hours.

So Thomson will not compensate you for a long delay until the ECJ ruling (favourable to passengers) is handed down. Even then Thomson could try to claim "extraordinary circumstances" but they have to prove this.

There are many passengers who are waiting for this ruling and despite what is said in Crystal's letter, the money is on a ruling in the passengers favour. So yes you may well have a claIm for compensation but you need to diarise it and check back from time to time.

As background for you, the Sturgeon judgment on 19/11/2009 from the ECJ was important because it said that long delays could be as inconvenient as cancellations to passengers and decided that compensation was payable for delays over 3 hours - subject to a defence by the airline of extraordinary circumstances. Of course, airlines didn't like this one little bit - hence the snotty tone from Crystal.

In any event and due to the delay, Thomson's should have provided you with Right to Care in accordance with Article 9 of EC Reg 261/2004. This is mandatory not optional. I reproduce the Article below for you.

Article 9
Right to care
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:
(a) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;
(b) hotel accommodation in cases
- where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, or
- where a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;
(c) transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other).
2. In addition, passengers shall be offered free of charge two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails.
3. In applying this Article, the operating air carrier shall pay particular attention to the needs of persons with reduced mobility and any persons accompanying them, as well as to the needs of unaccompanied children.

Hope that helps.

mac54

Hi,
I have just come across Article 10 'Upgrading and Downgrading' in 261/2004. Our flight tcx373, (all details in post 1363) was downgraded and we promptly received a cheque for the amount we had paid for the upgrade.

The Article says "2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall
within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3),
reimburse...(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling under (a) or (b), including flights between the European
territory of the Member States and the French overseas
departments."

Do I have a right to have been refunded 75% of the ticket price? How would I know the cost of the ticket, as it was part of a package holiday?
As in my previous post, do I write to Thomas Cook as the carrier or P and O. The cheque refunding the upgrade amount was attached to P and O headed letter from a Customer Relations Executive.

Many thanks for help so far.

ian41

mac54 wrote: »

Hi,
I have just come across Article 10 'Upgrading and Downgrading' in 261/2004. Our flight tcx373, (all details in post 1363) was downgraded and we promptly received a cheque for the amount we had paid for the upgrade.

The Article says "2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall
within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3),
reimburse...(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling under (a) or (b), including flights between the European
territory of the Member States and the French overseas
departments."

Do I have a right to have been refunded 75% of the ticket price? How would I know the cost of the ticket, as it was part of a package holiday?
As in my previous post, do I write to Thomas Cook as the carrier or P and O. The cheque refunding the upgrade amount was attached to P and O headed letter from a Customer Relations Executive.

Many thanks for help so far.

Yes this does apply to you and TC as the operating air carrier are responsible for the payment. Whether they or P & O pay is irrelevant to you but your action under EC Reg 261/2004 is against Thomas Cook.

You should either wait for a reply from your previous email/letter or write now and quote Article 10 in full, saying that you expect a refund amounting to 75% of the cost of x (business or premium economy class) seats.

Don't sweat the small stuff at this stage. Let them do the calculations and once they tell you, we can work out whether it is reasonable or not.

pycroft

ian41 wrote: »

Tony

Have just been informed that you have posted similar threads three times! Perhaps you need to ask one of the Board Guides to either merge all these threads or you should delete at least two or are there more? I do not want to be answering multiple posts and most others will feel the same. So you need to get that sorted I would suggest.

=======================================================

What was the original departure and arrival airport for the cancelled flight? Are you saying that your re-routing to Gatwick cost £400 compared with £35 and that this was the only flight available within (say) 24 hours of your original return flight? Is £35 correct?

Under EC Reg 261/2004 you are protected and Air Europa had to offer you a sensible re-route option or refund/reimbursement of your original flight at your choice (I hope that you did not accept the refund/reimbursement because it is either a refund or re-routing but not both)

Here is the article

Article 8
Right to reimbursement or re-routing
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,
- a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;
(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or
(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.
2. Paragraph 1(a) shall also apply to passengers whose flights form part of a package, except for the right to reimbursement where such right arises under Directive 90/314/EEC.
3. When, in the case where a town, city or region is served by several airports, an operating air carrier offers a passenger a flight to an airport alternative to that for which the booking was made, the operating air carrier shall bear the cost of transferring the passenger from that alternative airport either to that for which the booking was made, or to another close-by destination agreed with the passenger.

If you wrote asking for compensation then Air Europa's response was probably correct. What you should have been asking for was reimbursement of the re-routing you had to arrange to get to Gatwick.

Perhaps before you write again to Air Europa, you might give the information requested at the start of this post - and then we can advise further.

Firstly many thanks for the reply - I did not know board procedure so thought I was doing the right thing by posting again here. apologies for error.

The original routing was Miami -London Gatwick (via a change of aircraft in Madrid). Four days before flying out from the states I received an email telling me the Madrid-London part was cancelled. I was offered an alternative (some 6 days later) or fly Miami to Madrid and receive a refund for the unused ticket of Madrid to London. My partner and myself booked the Easyjet flight from Madrid to London which cost 432 for both of us (216 each). This was within four hours of the original flight time.


Hope I have explained things better and thanks once again.


Tony

pycroft

I have not accepted (or received) any refund whatsoever from Air Europa

Thanks