Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

ian41

Tony

Have just been informed that you have posted similar threads three times! Perhaps you need to ask one of the Board Guides to either merge all these threads or you should delete at least two or are there more? I do not want to be answering multiple posts and most others will feel the same. So you need to get that sorted I would suggest.

Have you contacted the Board Guides to do the above? It would be a good idea.

I am not going to go chasing to look at other threads so have I got the full story?.

1. Why was the flight cancelled - I need to know what was said and when it was said exactly?

2. Did it really only cost £35 for the two of you for Madrid>London on your original ticket? If not please be specific?

3. So you were only offered one re-routing 6 days later and at no time did they try to arrange alternative flights for Madrid>London? Is that right?

4. At what date/time did you buy the tickets from easyJet? Did you ask Air Europa specifically to arrange an alternative flight before you booked? Or did your travel agent get involved?

I need you to be specific because in your post in this thread you said you might take action against the travel agent or presumably Air Europa. To comtemplate that the facts need to be crystal clear.

As your flight was cancelled, you are entitled to Right to Care under Article 9as follows:

Article 9
Right to care
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:
(a) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;
(b) hotel accommodation in cases
- where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, or
- where a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;
(c) transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other).
2. In addition, passengers shall be offered free of charge two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails.
3. In applying this Article, the operating air carrier shall pay particular attention to the needs of persons with reduced mobility and any persons accompanying them, as well as to the needs of unaccompanied children.

Did you incur such expenses?

Please get the duplicate threads sorted, give me the answers above and then I will let you know what can be done. But please be specific with me.

pycroft

Tony


Have you contacted the Board Guides to do the above? It would be a good idea

I am doing this at them moment.

I am not going to go chasing to look at other threads so have I got the full story?.

1. Why was the flight cancelled - I need to know what was said and when it was said exactly?

Whilst on holiday I received an email from the travel agent (Hays Travel) saying my return flight had been cancelled (no reason was given). This was done on the Thursday as I was due to fly on following Sunday. The original return was Miami - Gatwick (Via Madrid). The email said my whole return flight was cancelled and gave me an alternative six days later. I could not accept this alternative date due to work requirements. I asked the travel agent to relay this to Air Europa to see if they would offer any other alternative flight. The travel agent said they could not offer any other dates and said I would have to buy my own flight home and get a refund of the unused part of the ticket. After a number of telephone calls to the travel agent it was then agreed by Air Europa that I would be able to use the part of the flight and fly to Madrid. I was told that I would then have to make my own way to London Gatwick. The travel agent booked this part for me at a cost of 432.00 for two adults inc Luggage on Easyjet.



2. Did it really only cost £35 for the two of you for Madrid>London on your original ticket? If not please be specific?



The original tickets were £960.00 for 2 adults on London to Miami (Via Madrid) return. The £35 figure is the amount the travel agent has estimated as due for the unused part of the ticket.

3. So you were only offered one re-routing 6 days later and at no time did they try to arrange alternative flights for Madrid>London? Is that right?

That is correct I was not offered any other re-routing other than the one 6 days later.

4. At what date/time did you buy the tickets from easyJet? Did you ask Air Europa specifically to arrange an alternative flight before you booked? Or did your travel agent get involved?

The travel agent (Hays Travel) did it all. The easyjet flight was booked on the Friday (48 hours prior to the start of the return journey). I asked the travel agent to ask Air Europa for an alternative or for them to pay Easyjet. According to the agent they refused. I therefore had no choice other than to book it.

I hope this makes things much clearer. I really appreciate your help in this and thank you very very much.

Kind Regards


Tony




I need you to be specific because in your post in this thread you said you might take action against the travel agent or presumably Air Europa. To comtemplate that the facts need to be crystal clear.

As your flight was cancelled, you are entitled to Right to Care under Article 9as follows:

Article 9
Right to care
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:
(a) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;
(b) hotel accommodation in cases
- where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, or
- where a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;
(c) transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other).
2. In addition, passengers shall be offered free of charge two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails.
3. In applying this Article, the operating air carrier shall pay particular attention to the needs of persons with reduced mobility and any persons accompanying them, as well as to the needs of unaccompanied children.

Did you incur such expenses?

Please get the duplicate threads sorted, give me the answers above and then I will let you know what can be done. But please be specific with me.[/QUOTE]

ian41

pycroft wrote: »

Tony

I am doing this at them moment.

1. Why was the flight cancelled - I need to know what was said and when it was said exactly?

Whilst on holiday I received an email from the travel agent (Hays Travel) saying my return flight had been cancelled (no reason was given). This was done on the Thursday as I was due to fly on following Sunday. The original return was Miami - Gatwick (Via Madrid). The email said my whole return flight was cancelled and gave me an alternative six days later. I could not accept this alternative date due to work requirements. I asked the travel agent to relay this to Air Europa to see if they would offer any other alternative flight. The travel agent said they could not offer any other dates and said I would have to buy my own flight home and get a refund of the unused part of the ticket. After a number of telephone calls to the travel agent it was then agreed by Air Europa that I would be able to use the part of the flight and fly to Madrid. I was told that I would then have to make my own way to London Gatwick. The travel agent booked this part for me at a cost of 432.00 for two adults inc Luggage on Easyjet.

2. Did it really only cost £35 for the two of you for Madrid>London on your original ticket? If not please be specific?

The original tickets were £960.00 for 2 adults on London to Miami (Via Madrid) return. The £35 figure is the amount the travel agent has estimated as due for the unused part of the ticket.

3. So you were only offered one re-routing 6 days later and at no time did they try to arrange alternative flights for Madrid>London? Is that right?

That is correct I was not offered any other re-routing other than the one 6 days later.

4. At what date/time did you buy the tickets from easyJet? Did you ask Air Europa specifically to arrange an alternative flight before you booked? Or did your travel agent get involved?

The travel agent (Hays Travel) did it all. The easyjet flight was booked on the Friday (48 hours prior to the start of the return journey). I asked the travel agent to ask Air Europa for an alternative or for them to pay Easyjet. According to the agent they refused. I therefore had no choice other than to book it.

QUOTE]

OK. Here is a brief summary of my personal views.

1. Article 8 - Regardless of the reason given for cancellation, you were entitled to a re-routing or re-imbursement of your Air Europa ticket. You chose the re-routing but Air Europa did not provide you with a sensible and acceptable re-routing. Therefore you arranged this at a cost of £432.00. You will have a receipt for this I presume. You will need to make a formal claim on Air Europa to recover this cost quoting Article 8 to them.

2. I need to know the date, flight number, departure and arrival times (scheduled) of your original cancelled Madrid>Gatwick flight with Air Europa and the date, flight number, departure and arrival times (scheduled and actual) of your easyJet flight.

3. Article 5 and 7. If the cause of the cancellation was an internal strike as you said in your first post, then compensation is due to you at the rate of Euro 250 per person.

However, if your easyJet flight was scheduled to leave Madrid no earlier than 1 hour before your cancelled Air Europa flight or arrive at Gatwick no later than 2 hours after your Air Europa was scheduled to arrive, then if Air Europa pay you the £432.00 for the re-routing, they will be able to claim a 50% reduction in the cancellation compensation - reducing it from a total of Euro 500 to Euro 250.

4. Article 9. You did not reply. Does that mean you did not have any allowable expenses or simply you forgot to reply?

I should make the general point that airlines rarely pay any form of compensation (as opposed to reimbursement) without (the threat of) legal action. This is because most claimants give up after the first few denials/excuses by the airline. For example, and on this thread and other fora, there are many that post their grievance in a single post and never return to follow up; so from an airlines viewpoint, the passage of time helps their bottom line. To pursue needs perseverance.

I have a significant backlog at the moment. If you want my layman's help I will prepare a draft letter for you to review and then email to Air Europa but you will have to wait and it might take 5-7 days before I can do it.

If you want me to do that please let me know, reply to points 2 and 4 above, and at the same time, I need to see exactly what you said to Air Europa when you wrote to them and a full copy of what they said in their reply.

If this takes you a day or so, it doesn't matter but so that I know that you have read this post either click the "Thanks" box or acknowledge this post.

pycroft

ian41 wrote: »

OK. Here is a brief summary of my personal views.

1. Article 8 - Regardless of the reason given for cancellation, you were entitled to a re-routing or re-imbursement of your Air Europa ticket. You chose the re-routing but Air Europa did not provide you with a sensible and acceptable re-routing. Therefore you arranged this at a cost of £432.00. You will have a receipt for this I presume. You will need to make a formal claim on Air Europa to recover this cost quoting Article 8 to them.


I have a receipt from Easyjet for the total of 439.92 inc card payment fee and luggage

2. I need to know the date, flight number, departure and arrival times (scheduled) of your original cancelled Madrid>Gatwick flight with Air Europa and the date, flight number, departure and arrival times (scheduled and actual) of your easyJet flight.


Easyjet Flight EZY5478 2nd Jan 2012 Departure 1725 arrival 1850 (it was on time)

Air Europa flight UX1015 2nd Jan 2012 Scheduled Departure 1500 arrival 1615 (cancelled due to Air Europa Internal Strike)

3. Article 5 and 7. If the cause of the cancellation was an internal strike as you said in your first post, then compensation is due to you at the rate of Euro 250 per person.

However, if your easyJet flight was scheduled to leave Madrid no earlier than 1 hour before your cancelled Air Europa flight or arrive at Gatwick no later than 2 hours after your Air Europa was scheduled to arrive, then if Air Europa pay you the £432.00 for the re-routing, they will be able to claim a 50% reduction in the cancellation compensation - reducing it from a total of Euro 500 to Euro 250.

4. Article 9. You did not reply. Does that mean you did not have any allowable expenses or simply you forgot to reply?

I have no allowable expenses (the ones I have are a so small it is not worth worrying over)

I should make the general point that airlines rarely pay any form of compensation (as opposed to reimbursement) without (the threat of) legal action. This is because most claimants give up after the first few denials/excuses by the airline. For example, and on this thread and other fora, there are many that post their grievance in a single post and never return to follow up; so from an airlines viewpoint, the passage of time helps their bottom line. To pursue needs perseverance.


I have perseverance -I do not want to give up on this because it was so annoying and spoiled a great holiday.

I have a significant backlog at the moment. If you want my layman's help I will prepare a draft letter for you to review and then email to Air Europa but you will have to wait and it might take 5-7 days before I can do it.


I really appreciate your help so more than happy to wait. I am just grateful for the help.

If you want me to do that please let me know, reply to points 2 and 4 above, and at the same time, I need to see exactly what you said to Air Europa when you wrote to them and a full copy of what they said in their reply.

Below is the contents of my letter to Air Europa and a copy of their reply.



Dear Sirs,

Re: Flight Cancellation 1st Jan 2012 – Claim EU Regulation 261/2004

I wish to make a claim under the above EU regulation for a flight that should have happened on the 2nd Jan 2012.

My partner and myself were originally booked from Miami (USA) to London Gatwick Airport (UK). The flight was due to leave on 1st Jan from Miami to Madrid and then changing aircraft (on the 2nd Jan) for a flight to London Gatwick.

I received an email (5 days prior to the flight) telling me our Madrid to London sector had been cancelled and offering us an alternative flight some 6 days later. This was unacceptable and as such I had no choice other than buying a flight for 2 adults to London Gatwick. This was an Easyjet flight costing £439.92 – A copy of the booking is attached.

I trust that a full refund of this flight will be made and that the matter can be dealt with amicably however I do reserve my rights to commence legal action if the situation is not rectified within 14 days.

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me.


reply from Air Europa
Mr. Anthony Pycroft



Palma de Mallorca, on 07 February 2012

Our Ref.: //35476

Dear Mr. Pycroft,

We acknowledge receipt of your letter on January 23, 2012 concerning our flight UX-098 Miami - Madrid January 01 2012, UX-1015 Madrid - London (Gatwick) January 02 2012. We are very sorry for the need to cancel the above mentioned flight, with it being impossible for the company to perform this flight as was originally programmed due to the Pilot Strike, this being an extraordinary circumstance for the Company.

Once the minimum services are confirmed, as well as the flights affected by the strike, a series of measures are initiated in order to avoid any inconvenience to our passengers; being all the outgoing agencies and the rest of our clients not ified and offered a transport alternative at their convenience or the reimbursement of the ticket. If it has not been possible to contact them previously, it is offered an alternative at the airport upon availability. To that, we should add that the strike call has had widespread diffusion on the Media, as well as Air Europa has published a list of the affected flights at the home page of our website, in order that all passengers can easily access the information in advance. This information is also sent updated every week to all the outgoing agencies.

Air Europa has acted as diligently as the situation required, to minimize the effects of the above mentioned cancellation to its passengers, using all the means within our reach as to avoid as much as possible any damage becoming from the particular situation of every passenger in these extraordinary circumstances.

We inform you that, in case you were not interested in the alternative offered by the company you can re quest the refund of the non used ticket through the office or travel agency where it was issued.

Nevertheless, we would like to inform you that, according to the International regulation in force, the airline will not be obliged to pay any compensation if it can prove that the cancellation was due to an extraordinary circumstance: as political instability, meteorological conditions, security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that affected the operation of an ope rating carrier, or the impact of an air traffic management decision.
Once more we are very grateful to have received your valued comments, due to it is our constant aim to improve our service.

Yours sincerely,


Customer Relations Department
Air Europa






If this takes you a day or so, it doesn't matter but so that I know that you have read this post either click the "Thanks" box or acknowledge this post.

A huge thank you again for taking your time to help with this.


Tony

udydudy

We were supposed to travel with Wizz Air on the 20th July 2011 from stansted to prague. After an initial 1 hour delay they announced boarding and we went through the security check and boarding desk to board the plane. Once we were at the gate to go to the aircraft it was announced that the flight got cancelled due to technical problems. We were asked to go to their customer service desk where we were all handed a sheet of paper which informed us of our rights.
We managed to get a seat on the next days flight so we booked into a hotel and had our meals. We caught the next days flight without any more problems.
On our return I emailed Wizz Air with details of out of pocket expenses and request for the compensation of Eur 250 to be paid out.
We received a reply after a few days requesting bank details and mentioning that they were paying the out of pocket expenses(less beer costs) but had turned down our request for compensation claiming extra ordinary circumstances.
I then contacted the CAA and lodged a complaint giving them full details. After 6 weeks I received a email from CAA saying that Wizz Air should be paying out the compensation and that they had written to Wizz Air regarding it.

Till date, after nearly 4 months of CAA having written to them they have not bothered to reply to the CAA. So in December I sent them a email for which I received a reply simply stating that I should interact with the CAA.

I wonder if the Airline can ignore the CAA what is the use of EU regulation when airlines in their own member states do not follow it.

Can someone guide me to what is the next step I can take to escalate the matter?

ian41

udydudy wrote: »

We were supposed to travel with Wizz Air on the 20th July 2011 from stansted to prague. After an initial 1 hour delay they announced boarding and we went through the security check and boarding desk to board the plane. Once we were at the gate to go to the aircraft it was announced that the flight got cancelled due to technical problems. We were asked to go to their customer service desk where we were all handed a sheet of paper which informed us of our rights.
We managed to get a seat on the next days flight so we booked into a hotel and had our meals. We caught the next days flight without any more problems.
On our return I emailed Wizz Air with details of out of pocket expenses and request for the compensation of Eur 250 to be paid out.
We received a reply after a few days requesting bank details and mentioning that they were paying the out of pocket expenses(less beer costs) but had turned down our request for compensation claiming extra ordinary circumstances.
I then contacted the CAA and lodged a complaint giving them full details. After 6 weeks I received a email from CAA saying that Wizz Air should be paying out the compensation and that they had written to Wizz Air regarding it.

Till date, after nearly 4 months of CAA having written to them they have not bothered to reply to the CAA. So in December I sent them a email for which I received a reply simply stating that I should interact with the CAA.

I wonder if the Airline can ignore the CAA what is the use of EU regulation when airlines in their own member states do not follow it.

Can someone guide me to what is the next step I can take to escalate the matter?

You might find it useful to read this thread re Wizzair

http://www.flightmole.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1534

Your first step should be to re-contact the CAA, update them on events and pose the "what next?" question. They should want to assist you in pursuing this and can persuade the airline to take this matter seriously. Once you have a definitive reply, come back and update the forum.

ian41

pycroft wrote: »

A huge thank you again for taking your time to help with this.

Tony

Sorry but we have a hiccup!

Just started putting things together but I have come across a problem with conflicting dates and facts. This is important because if you are writing a final letter to airlines (or whoever) before you take legal action - it should summarise facts.

You have mentioned three or four times earlier in this thread and you confirmed to me that you were only offered a choice of one re-routing and that this was 6 days later. So in my simple timeline, this would mean a flight from Miami on 7 January and/or from Madrid>Gatwick on 8 January - 6 days after your original flight.

I was looking to check some details for someone else in another thread in early January. I came across one of your other threads which talks about not only two alternatives offered to you, but also different dates - one on 30 December and the other on 6 January - presumably both ex-Miami or were they ex-Madrid dates?

So which is the correct position/date please?

One other point that worries me. When Air Europa offered you via Hays Travel either 1, 2 or 3 options for re-routing, it was for the routing from Miami>Gatwick via Madrid. You declined but eventually agreed with Air Europa via Hays, that you would fly back to Madrid on your original date. At that stage, I would have expected Hays/Air Europa to organise a re-routing for Madrid>Gatwick - but nothing, zilch. Why didn't Hays do something about it immediately on your behalf?

From your other thread, you mention that others on your Miami>Madrid flight were given onward flights at Madrid (without charge) with easyJet (to Gatwick?) but you were not offered those flights and you had pre-bought them from Hays Travel.

Do you have any idea why Air Europa treated you differently from other passengers travelling to the UK? Again I presume that all four sectors on your tickets were fully confirmed and you had not been given stand-by tickets for the MAD>LGW sector originally?

One other point that I should emphasise. Action under EC Reg 261/2004 can only be taken by you against the operating air carrier - Air Europa. We will find out shortly but unusually in this situation, you only dealt with Hays Travel and maybe we will find out that the three way triangle was the reason why matters did not run smoothly. Perhaps communications between Hays and Air Europa were at fault?

Let me have the answers when you can please.

needmore75

Hi all -

Blimey it's been years since I posted, I bloody love this site though!

I was due to fly back from Berlin with BA on Sunday, 5th Feb.
Because of the prediction of snow, we got a text on the Saturday night saying our flight was cancelled. Got back to apartment phoned up - after about 3 hours of trying, got a flight on the Monday, 6th Feb.

Turns out the cancellations were unneccessary - you may have seen the papers critising the decision because it wasn't bad. We spent another night, paid etc etc and thought, excellent, we can claim our 250 euros each for the hassle. We both had to take extra annual leave etc and hang around London as our train fares back to Cambridge were off-peak so couldn't use them on Monday at peak time. Was a pain.

My boyfriend went to do the claim and it was denied as it was because of the weather. I say RUBBISH because the weather was fine and regardless surely it's our right at least to get our hotel stay back and travel etc etc?

Anyone know about this. Everytime I see those annoying stupid BA luggage adverts on TV since the cancellation I get ANGRY!

Thanks for anyones help. Appreciated.

Sarah :beer:

dzug1

I think the problem is you claimed COMPENSATION rather than ASSISTANCE. You are entitled to the latter - the former very doubtful. The cancellation was due to weather - OK a wrong forecast but still the weather. There's also air traffic control decisions being an additional possible extraordinary circumstance.

So go back and ask for assistance - the extra night in your apartment mainly - and forget compensation.

ian41

needmore75 wrote: »

Thanks for anyones help. Appreciated.

Sarah :beer:

I agree with dzug1's analysis. Following flight cancellation, you are entitled to Right to Care under Article 9 of EC Reg 261/2004. But please remember you are not asking for compensation but reimbursement of expenses incurred following the cancellation of your flight. Receipts are generally requested.

A copy of the full regulation EC Reg 261/2004 can be found in the link below

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004R0261:EN:HTML