Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

Saramond

Ian41,

Thank you so much for taking the time to look into this for me, it's very much appreciated. I'm going to discuss what you've said with my husband and see where we'll go next.

ian41

pedrobazza wrote: »

Sorry about that - I betrayed the fact I'm a newbie!

I forwarded your suggested email, will update the forum as and when i get a reply.

Thanks again for your help, it's massively appreciated!!

No problem - pleased to help.

In your instance, and due to your dogged persistence, EZY appear to have given you bum information to throw you off the scent. Unless the case gets kicked upstairs to a supervisor, I fear that you will get more drivel in the next email.

Perhaps, I should have added that EZY has earned itself a reputation for obfuscation, denial and mis-information regarding 261/2004 claims. Nearly all settlements have been after the claimant has issued legal proceedings. It is nothing to do with customer loyalty, it is merely a calculation on EZY's part of whether they believe the claimant has the determination to fight the battle - or give up as I suspect over 90% do. If claimants show weakness or hesitation, EZY do not tend to settle.

My advice for what it is worth is if you have a good claim, be prepared to take it all the way. You need to persevere and be determined, But it is also very empowering and helpful advice is available from several fora. You do not need a solicitor but equally see the next para....

From a practical viewpoint, it might be worth checking whether or not you have legal expenses insurance either in a Travel Insurance or a Home Contents policy. If you have, it makes the job even easier because you can then get a solicitor to handle the whole matter for you - with the bonus of individual legal advice.

Let's await EZY's answer

ian41

lewroll wrote: »

ian41 can I tap your knowledge please???

Is there a website I can look at that will tell me a) whether a flight actually took off and b) if it did, whether it was full or not?

The flight in question originated in Sharm El Sheikh, Egypt and was bound for Manchester. (Easyjet)

Many thanks in advance for your help

(a) would try flightstats.co.uk first

(b) no - it is commercially sensitive information and would not be available to the public

You could always try postring full details of your query on this forum.

scotsgirl_3

Hoping somebody more knowledgeable can assist. I was booked on an Aer Lingus flight from Edinburgh to Dublin yesterday morning. I arrived at the airport to be told the flight was delayed, didn't know how long for but technical issues meant the inbound flight had to return to Dublin. The flight was then cancelled, and they announced we would all be bused through to Glasgow to get the later flight from there.

Long story short, we eventually got to Dublin just over 3 hours later than we should. I was travelling for work, so this was billable work time that was lost. Does anyone know where I stand re claiming compensation? I noticed some of the previous comments mentioned a stay in England and Wales - does anyone know whether this applies to Scotland too, or whether an Irish airline would be using it anyway?

ANy advice as to what I need to say in a letter would be much appreciated.

richardw

Your flight from EDI was cancelled and they will probably say 'extraordinary' circumstances to deny compensation.

Read up on Wallentin Hermann v Alitalia re technical issues.

ian41

scotsgirl wrote: »

Hoping somebody more knowledgeable can assist. I was booked on an Aer Lingus flight from Edinburgh to Dublin yesterday morning. I arrived at the airport to be told the flight was delayed, didn't know how long for but technical issues meant the inbound flight had to return to Dublin. The flight was then cancelled, and they announced we would all be bused through to Glasgow to get the later flight from there.

Long story short, we eventually got to Dublin just over 3 hours later than we should. I was travelling for work, so this was billable work time that was lost. Does anyone know where I stand re claiming compensation? I noticed some of the previous comments mentioned a stay in England and Wales - does anyone know whether this applies to Scotland too, or whether an Irish airline would be using it anyway?

ANy advice as to what I need to say in a letter would be much appreciated.

Can only assume richardw was in a rush as his answer was somewhat cryptic!

Let me give you my view. Your flight was cancelled, not delayed. As a result, your query asking whether the stay in England and Wales applies to Scotland, becomes irrelevant as that stay relates to long delays - not cancellations.

Compensation is due at Euro 250 pp under Articles 5 and 7 of EC Reg 261/2004 (this should be converted to GBP at the ECB exchange rate on 11 January 2012). The airline can claim (but has to prove) a defence of extraordinary circumstances to avoid payment of compensation - but this is not easy for an airline following the Wallentin-Hermann and Sturgeon rulings by the ECJ. These rulings strengthened the hands of passengers much to the annoyance of the airlines.

You mention billable work. If you are self-employed and could prove that the 3 hour loss of time due to late arrival resulted in an actual (not a potential) loss of income, then in theory you could make a claim under Article 19 of The Montreal Convention 1999 against the airline. You would be claiming for damage occasioned by delay of the flight but forget it if you are employed as an employee/director on a salaried basis. If you want to read the MC see the following

http://www.jus.uio.no/lm/air.carriage.unification.convention.montreal.1999/doc.html#88

In simple terms (so that I can understand it), EC Reg 261/2004 is a tariff based compensation scheme i.e. depending on where you were flying, whether and when your flight was cancelled, you would receive either Euro 250, 400 or 600 compensation.

Under the MC, whilst there are some restrictions, you claim for your actual damages. The MC is more often used for either lost or badly damaged baggage claims.

I am assuming that you are not self-employed and therefore ineligible for a MC claim. If I am right, suggest that you need to send a letter using my template below (as suitably amended):

Dear Sirs

Insert here your original flight numbers, date, e-ticket number and booking reference/PRN

Under EC Reg 261/2004 Articles 5 and 7, and following the cancellation of Flight XXXXX on XX XXXXXXXX 20XX, I am claiming Euro 250/400/600 compensation.

Should you wish to claim a defence of extraordinary circumstances, I ask you to submit proof to me that meets or exceeds the very high standards set out by the ECJ in both the Wallentin-Hermann and Sturgeon rulings dated 22/12/2008 and 19/11/2009 respectively. In this context, it is insufficient to merely claim extraordinary circumstances, as the Regulation requires you to prove it and I would like to examine the robustness of such evidence.

If you fail to provide me with answers or co-operate with me fully, I must also draw your attention to the relevant Practice Direction concerning pre-action conduct prior to court proceedings. If necessary, I will produce copies of our correspondence to date to the Court.

In summary, if you wish to propose a defence of extraordinary circumstances, please provide me with the full details as requested above. Alternatively, please send me a cheque for £XXX.XX in full settlement of the compensation due (i.e. Euro XXX at the ECB official exchange rate of 0.XXXXX GBP = 1 Euro on XX XXXXXX 20XX (insert date of flight). Either way, I am giving you 21 days from today's date to reply. Failing that, I reserve the right to take any appropriate legal action at any time to recover this sum without further notice.


Yours faithfully

XXXXXXX

That's a layman's view which should get you started. If anything is unclear, post back and you will get either another cryptic clue or help!

scotsgirl_3

Thank you very much Ian, that's brilliant. They seem to be having a lot of "technical difficulties" on these routes - flew back this evening, my flight was to Edin was delayed again, as was the Glasgow flight due to fly out after us.

pedrobazza

Quick update on my case...

I received an email from a supervisor, same story (see below) so I've referred the case to the CAA and await their response.

"Thank you for your further e-mail dated 09th January 2012 requesting that your case must be escalated to the Supervisor. Let me introduce myself. My name is XXXXXX and I am a Customer Service Supervisor for easyJet's Customer Service Department.

I have taken over this case and I have read through all of the correspondences relating to this matter. Once again I would like to sincerely apologise for the inconvenience the disruption to your flight caused to you.

I would like to inform you that the information provided to you by my junior colleague in the previous e-mail is the precise reason for the cancellation of your flight. This reason is beyond easyJet's control and therefore, constitutes as an extraordinary circumstances. I regret if you did not find the initial responses to be precise enough.

The conclusion of this case is that you are not entitled for compensation. Rest I assure you that we can never refuse a claim of a passenger when he/she is entitled to it. It becomes difficult for us us to make a mutual decision in such cases.

Please consider this as the final response from us.

Yours sincerely"

richardw

Sounds like a standard "get lost" from easyJet.

ian41

pedrobazza wrote: »

I received an email from a supervisor, same story (see below) so I've referred the case to the CAA and await their response

Although the CAA is not swamped with referrals due to the comparatively good weather, their overall record is somewhere between poor and suspect. I would not be relying on them to produce the goods, although someone will write to EZY. And they will reply saying exactly what they have said to you. Its unlikely to provide you with progress.

"Thank you for your further e-mail dated 09th January 2012 requesting that your case must be escalated to the Supervisor. Let me introduce myself. My name is XXXXXX and I am a Customer Service Supervisor for easyJet's Customer Service Department.

I have taken over this case and I have read through all of the correspondences relating to this matter. Once again I would like to sincerely apologise for the inconvenience the disruption to your flight caused to you.

I would like to inform you that the information provided to you by my junior colleague in the previous e-mail is the precise reason for the cancellation of your flight. This reason is beyond easyJet's control and therefore, constitutes as an extraordinary circumstances. I regret if you did not find the initial responses to be precise enough.

The conclusion of this case is that you are not entitled for compensation. Rest I assure you that we can never refuse a claim of a passenger when he/she is entitled to it. It becomes difficult for us us to make a mutual decision in such cases.

Please consider this as the final response from us.

Yours sincerely"

Once again sheer drivel.

Article 5.3 requires EZY to prove (not just state) that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances even though all reasonable measures had been taken. They have not bothered to do that because they expect you to pack up your bags and disappear or in a similar fashion, pass the case to the CAA.

On their 3rd or 4th attempt, EZY suggested that the Manchester flight was due to use aircraft G-EXDC but this aircraft was diverted to Birmingham. We have pointed out to EZY that G-EXDC did arrive at BHX en-route from Nice to Liverpool (not Manchester) and subsequently left LPL at 1630 for Berlin.

If as EZY allege but have not proven, this aircraft was allocated to the Manchester/Berlin flight leaving MAN at 1805, then clearly this was perfectly achievable. If EZY chose to use this aircraft on an earlier flight from LPL rather than its allocated flight from MAN, then this was a commercial decision on EZY's part - and is not an extraordinary circumstance.

The comments in my previous post to you apply; this is standard EZY practice.

Whatever you decide to do with this, may I wish you good luck.