Nibe Fighter 360p ashp costing me loads to run

lovesfarmbpha

In New Zealand heat pumps are in almost every home providing heat & hotwater ,so if they are saying, gas is a greener/cost effective fuel than the heat pumps they have, then we should listen.The electricity sector in New Zealand uses mainly renewable energy sources such as hydropower, geothermal power and increasingly wind energy. The 70% share of renewable energy sources makes New Zealand one of the lowest carbon dioxide emitting countries in terms of electricity generation UNLIKE THE UK which green electricity only accounts for 5%!!!!!!!Please read link

http://www.voxy.co.nz/lifestyle/using-gas-can-cut-power-bills-report/5/141322

John_Pierpoint

Looks like a low cost housing estate in a rural location.

but God help any owner/tenant intending to install a log burner:



On Georgian houses you see bricked up windows - in order to save tax.
On new millennium houses you see fake chimneys - in order to save the international tax on carbon emissions. Yes they cannot trust you to burn wood, you might sneak off and buy a bag of bootleg coal ?

The regulations now make it difficult to include chimneys in housing design, they count as an opening in the envelope of the building (and can indeed act as a ventilation system, even when not in use). If you don't want to be marked down in your Energy Performance Certificate you must not install a log burner, unless it is room sealed - could make loading the logs difficult.

Here is a spot the difference competition:

Country: Norway
125k sq miles : Area
Heat Pump & log burner : Favourite central heating system.
Hydro electricity : Low cost power source
Massive : Balance of payments surplus from oil exports invested in sovereign wealth fund. [They don't fritter away hydrocarbons by burning them at home]

Country: New Zealand
103k sq miles : Area
Heat Pump & log burner : Favourite central heating system.
Hydro electricity : Low cost power source
Chronic Balance of payments in goods and services, not helped by recent natural disasters; however rising populations (or is that rising global funny money supplies) are increasing the value of New Zealand's commodity exports.

Country: UK
94k sq miles : Area
"Boiler" : Favourite central heating system.
Gas : Rising cost power source - fortunately some imported from secure Norway.
Massive : Balance of payments deficit as surplus from oil exports has all been spent.

So what is the difference?

4.5 million : Norway
4+ million : New Zealand
62 million : UK

Not really comparable countries?

http://elibrary-data.imf.org/FindDataReports.aspx?d=33061&e=170784

lovesfarmbpha

Cornish HA,PHA, remove NIBE Exhaust air heat pump and put in Ground source heat pumps

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Nibe.problems.cornwall/

T_Wilson

Hi all, mine won't switch onto Summer mode. Any ideas why this may be?

Everytime I click to summer it goes straight onto Spring/Autumn with the heating kicking in

John_Pierpoint

It knows what the temperature is and for your own good ignores your silly suggestion?

40 years ago I lived in one side of a pair of semis. It was summer time and in due course the nice people next door left, being replaced by a "masters of the universe" couple.

First day in the North Thames gas van was outside in the summer sunshine.
So that evening I thought I ought to pop round and introduce myself.
The boiler was in a state of disarray as they explained that nobody could get the heating to switch on - including the "engineer" from the gas board.

I thought for a bit and then asked if they had any ice cubes in the fridge.
Yes it was a clever little boiler it had an out door sensor to switch on the heating regardless in frosty weather and to monitor is it needed leaving on at night on the "set back" temperature during the night.
So we packed the outside sensor with ice cubes and within 5 minutes the heating turned on.

Even the most primitive heat pump and night storage heater is expected to know what the outside temperature is these days, to discourage users from mindlessly basking in temperatures above 20 C and to avoid not overheat the home in the next 24 hours..

T_Wilson

Nah, I just reset the temperature gauge. I leave the piece of crap on summer mode when I'm at work and overnight. It's going to be warmer in Manchester but chucking down with rain rather than frosty.

These machines really are useless. I met a guy at a networking event who just started laughing when i said I had one of these in my house. I couldn't help but join in,

1plus1equal3

hi, i am hoping that someone on here can give me some advice please , on my niber fighter 2005 airsource unit.I am totally ignorant on how to use this system, and so are most of the 50 or so engineers who have been sent round to fix my nibe over the last 3 years. But finally everything seems to be sorted, radiators have been installed in downstairs loo, and hallway, as i was getting no heat in there and it was constantly freezing.I have also now got thermostats in each room, to give me a bit of control. Anyway what the problem is, this was all done a few weeks ago, and recently i have noticed that the underfloor heating and radiators are on at 3 oclock in the morning, and that the thermostats are reading the same temp as i have them set on permantly.This worried me as my electric bill is really high ( nothing new there, but thought it would be cheaper now problems are solved).Though i have no knowledge on these systems, as im a little old lady with no technical abilities (cant even set a dvd player up), i wondered if the setback was on, as i wouldnt expect my heating to be running at that time of morning , and keeping temp up to normal daytime temp.So i contacted my housing association, and today recieved a message from the firm that set the thermostats and radiators up, and basically what he said was, that i need to turn the thermostats on the radiators down every night, and then up again every morning.This dosnt seem right to me, for a starters the thermostats are so small and fiddly, that i can neither read them , or reset them, and also that means it will be chilly again when i get up in the morning untill i turn them up again , which was the problem in the first place, as i cant bare being cold, due to ilness.Can anyone please advice me , does this sound right.

Taz79

T_Wilson wrote: »

Hi all, mine won't switch onto Summer mode. Any ideas why this may be?

Everytime I click to summer it goes straight onto Spring/Autumn with the heating kicking in

Hello. I live in Sweden. Thought i might help you out a little here. I run a Nibe 360P also and im pretty happy with it. The immersion heater (i think its called that in English) in the Nibe is turned off. Only running on compressor. During the winter i burn some wood in the little fireplace i have My house is 1,5 storys high and living space is at the moment 120 square meters (top floor not used). When top floor is fixed the house will be 180 square meters.

In total we have a consumption of 5000 kWh/year. 3000 kWh/year of this is for the Nibe Pump (Calculated over 2 years back)

Average temp over 2 years in Sweden between 8-9 celsius.

The immersion heater is not needed in my house if the temp outside is around 3-4 degrees C outside, then the compressor manages to heat the house itself. Only consuming 600-730w (without addition of any other heat sources)

So.. To answer your question.. Finally
The reason why your pump goes back to Spring/Autumn mode is probably because the average temp outside is below 0 C. This is a protection for the heating system to prevent the house or the floor heating to be damaged if you set it to summer and go away for a long time.

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lovesfarmbpha wrote: »

In New Zealand heat pumps are in almost every home providing heat & hotwater ,so if they are saying, gas is a greener/cost effective fuel than the heat pumps they have, then we should listen.The electricity sector in New Zealand uses mainly renewable energy sources such as hydropower, geothermal power and increasingly wind energy. The 70% share of renewable energy sources makes New Zealand one of the lowest carbon dioxide emitting countries in terms of electricity generation UNLIKE THE UK which green electricity only accounts for 5%!!!!!!!Please read link

If you are talking about "Natural Gas" that comes from Oil, then that gas is NOT a better alternative if the country uses 70% renewable energy..

If you are talking about "bio gas" that is produced from manure, household waste or waste water that produces methane gas then this gas is a greener alternative!

Sweden where i live uses electricity from a little bit more than 50% renewable sources. The rest is mainly from nuclear power. That means that Swedens electrical usage does not produce any carbondioxide emissions at all.. (well very little since a couple of percent is still oil power during the winter)...

So.. It all depends how the fuel/power is produced... UK has 9,6% renewable energy (second quarter 2011).

John_Pierpoint

New Zealand
4 - 5 million population
104,000 sq miles
Norway
4 - 5 million population
125,000 sq miles
Sweden
9 million population
174,000 sq miles
UK
63 million population
95,000 sq miles
This population has grown every year from mid-2002 to mid-2011, with the largest annual percentage growth since the year to mid-1962 in the year to mid-2011 (479,000, 0.86 per cent).
the UK population stands at around 63.1 million, up four million in the past decade; almost equivalent to adding the entire city of Manchester each year. [or an extra Norway in 10 years]

Short term solution - fracking gas.
Long term solution - ship all migrants back to their historical country of origins in the last couple of millenniums ? Even Sweden would get a nasty shock when all its N,American migrants came "home"!

1962 was roughly the start of the roll out of the contraceptive pill in the UK. The increase is mainly inward migration and first generation reproduction.

I really don't think that peripheral countries with small populations and
and lots of hydro power can offer much in the way of solving climate change for the rest of us. Even the UK is a bit player when compared with India & China.

http://www.breathingearth.net/

To get back on thread, these NIBE heat pumps were sold in the UK on the theory that the builders could win subsidies by sticking one in a cupboard. It would magically suck hot air out of the home, remove the heat from this air and chuck the resulting "freezing cold" air into the garden. Complete nonsense in the UK on a day like today with an outside temperature of minus 4. but self evident nonsense on any day when the exhaust air is barely below the external air temperature.
At best the pump is creating 3 units of heat from the use of one unit of electricity so unless the exhaust air from the pump is going into the garden at (say) 5 degrees lower than the temperature out there the wretched pump might as well be turned off and the long suffering house owner burn full price electricity using a radiant heater.

Let us pretend that the external temperature is 5 degrees and the internal temperature needs to be 20 degrees, ignoring heat losses from the inadequately specified and badly built UK home, we a steady state where air is sucked into the house at 5 degrees and expelled into the garden at -5 degrees. The difference of 10 degrees has been captured by the pump and another 5 degrees of heat has been added by electricity burn by the pump's motor. Voila we have hot air at 20 degrees to squirt into the home at 1/3rd of the normal price of electricity..

Simple measurement of the exhaust temperatures of thes pumps has demonstrated that even this is not being achieved.

Now we could talk about the problem of the new tenants, raised on the concept of cheap gas instantly producing heat and only being needed to be switched on when the room feels too cold for comfort.
The idea of leaving the pump to run continually, especially overnight when the [subsidised nuclear] electricity is half price, goes against everything they have ever learned.

We could also talk about the nonsense of trying to use heat pumps to supply radiators by sucking in air at 5 degrees and trying to heat water to 55 degrees (more in cold weather like now), in households used to radiators at 65 - 75 degrees, heated by coal, oil or gas..

John.

PS
The rest is mainly from nuclear power. That means that Swedens electrical usage does not produce any carbondioxide emissions at all.........

How much carbon dioxide was used building every one of the nuclear power stations ?
How much energy will be required to keep all the toxic waste safe for 250,00 years? How many more homes like this will be needed in Sweden, when every nutty little dictator can build his own bomb.



http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Unique-Rock-Shelter-including-8-356-sq-m-lot-in-the-middle-of-Sweden-/00/s/NzIwWDU0MA==/$T2eC16Z,!zQE9s3stvK9BQ7ZVK6InQ~~60_12.JPG

lovesfarmbpha

Hello Taz79.
It is good to hear how people in Sweden work with this so we can compare ,so please do continue with your thoughts.
In Sweden these Nibe units ,or any similar ,are by law only allowed to be installed into homes that meet a very high insulation standard(heat loss/heat load). That standard is way above any such thing in the UK so already we fail here in the UK. Why have Sweden imposed such a law? Normally such law is made because something has happened to bring it in.We can safely assume that the Swedish know ,from experience ,that unless you have a super insulated home then these systems struggle to work effectively/efficiently .
You also say you have a wood burner. The homes in the UK with the NIBE only have the NIBE. To show you mathematically how bad this all is ,the new homes in the UK with these systems(nibe 360 & 200p) struggle to provide hot water and heating ,without using the immersion (heating element) under 10C. Yes outside temperatures of 10C and below. As you can see NOT GOOD.
Ok so you may ask "what fool would do this,this is the problem of the people saying that this system is ok in this house ,not the fault of the house as we know the house is not very well insulated !!!!". Well that fool would be NIBE UK . NIBE UK specified all the calculations for all the homes (via consultants).Even the consultants told NIBE UK that they would not work in some properties but NIBE UK saw the money. That is fact and we are more than happy to go to court to hand over all the documentation. SO sure NIBE is ok in the correct place but not in these homes.
Taz you say you hardly produce any CO2 in Sweden ..mmmmm....sure but you do produce a lot of nuclear waste . True you cannot see it you just bury it well done ????? Sweden has poor almost no oil reserves so you really have no choice but to love electricity. In fact per house hold you are among the highest users of electricity in the WORLD!
In the UK we are not so CO2 clean with making electricity. We mainly have natural gas power stations that make the electricity,hence why the argument about why gas is more CO2 friendly here in the UK infact gas is in the UK is 3 times less co2 producing than UK electricity.
So you see yes your NIBE works in your Swedish home with a wood burner try now not using the wood burner and put the immersion element on, open some windows and then experience how it is to have this system in a UK homes. We have also enjoyed your comments on the you tube clips