Nibe Fighter 360p ashp costing me loads to run

Aceboyz

ra200 wrote: »

11kW in 4.5 hours is a lot any luck with your housing association at all mate?,


It has been 2 weeks ago since nibe came out and 3 weeks since I reported the problem to my housing association as far as I am concerned I think that our housing association thinks we are lying about the situation all they have to do is take one meter reading one day and another the next day to see how much this thing is using nothing has been done so far apart from two energy monitors which my partner calls lie detectors as far as we are concerned now if I do not get a answer from melin homes about what is going to be done to provide a alternative or replacement heating/hot water system that is cost effective to run by next week we are going to our local paper about this I have already spoken to citizens advice, Not using it as a excuse but I have two young children here and I do not think they have taken that in to consideration and to be honest mate I think if a o.a.p was living here the situation would be sorted by now,

The thing that annoys me is that we was told this system is eco friendly and cheap to run and would save us money but it is 6x more expensive than gas, We have been keeping the nibe swiched off as much as possible offer the last two days as it costs around £8.50p a day in this weather,

Hi Ra, regarding the Housing Association i have been asked not to make any comments on here, sorry. However what i can say is the MP is doing his up most to get this issue resolved, he has stated he will do what he can at first without using the papers and media if this fails then all papers and media will be involved to make this major issue broadcasted.

There is a new Watchdog series starting soon and i have made some inquiries about getting this problem broadcasted on there too, obviously don't want to start anything yet so the Housing association have been given a chance to sort it.

Our first bill for 4 weeks was £178, we have phoned our supplier and from the 14th December to the 10th January our bill = £173.73 and for just 15 days this month we have already used £60.61. I know £60.61 does not sound a lot but when you double that for the month = £121 approx and remember that during 8-10 days of that bill so far we had temperatures of 12 degrees and above it worries me greatly.

This especially worries me when we have a certificate that clearly states per year we should be paying £497 give or take a little we are only £60approx paying that in 2 months.

We have 3 kids mate so i know how your feeling and to have this matter constantly going through your head and my wife worrying about it all makes me so angry it's unbelievable.

I took a quick meter reading this morning and at 9am the Night units had used 11kW and between 7:30am and 9am we had used 3kW. I will give you all a final reading at 17:30 but so far we have used 38kW in just 15.5hrs.

KFiskPlumbingandHeating

Hi everyone, there is a bit in my local paper where a whole estate is in the same situation, again ive had a look at one and the units will do their job but not in the houses they are in, standard is 3 bed terrace/semi and they are underrated, whoever specified these didnt do their job properly, im qualified for fitting heat pumps and can already see the bivalent points for heat loss and heat load that was required are never going to be achieved on this estate, the immersion is forever going to be called for, the technology is very very good, unfortunately the installers are not

richardc1983

KFiskPlumbingandHeating wrote: »

Hi everyone, there is a bit in my local paper where a whole estate is in the same situation, again ive had a look at one and the units will do their job but not in the houses they are in, standard is 3 bed terrace/semi and they are underrated, whoever specified these didnt do their job properly, im qualified for fitting heat pumps and can already see the bivalent points for heat loss and heat load that was required are never going to be achieved on this estate, the immersion is forever going to be called for, the technology is very very good, unfortunately the installers are not

I don't think the technology is that good at all for this unit. As I have said previously u are sucking warm air out the property and reclaiming this heat. You then have cold air being sucked through the building fabric to replace the air being extracted this air then adds to the heat load of the building, it is like having your windows open in winter while u have the heating on. U cannot rely on this type of system to provide the whole buildings heating requirements. Many commercial heat recovery systems that extract exhaust air will recover the heat then use this heat to heat the fresh air being brought into the building. They work along side the heating system thats all they do recover exhaust heat.

This nibe system extracts air from the building but the designers didn't take into account the cold fresh air replacing the air being sucked out. Te system would have been better using outdoor air for it's evaporator rather than room air. In summer though when you have the windows open then recovering the unwanted heat from the building then it would work perfect. However I don't think the nibe uses it's compressor above a certain outdoor temp. Pointless!

ra200

Hi there thanks for posting about this can you tell me what paper it was in so i can try look it up online thanks,

KFiskPlumbingandHeating wrote: »

Hi everyone, there is a bit in my local paper where a whole estate is in the same situation, again ive had a look at one and the units will do their job but not in the houses they are in, standard is 3 bed terrace/semi and they are underrated, whoever specified these didnt do their job properly, im qualified for fitting heat pumps and can already see the bivalent points for heat loss and heat load that was required are never going to be achieved on this estate, the immersion is forever going to be called for, the technology is very very good, unfortunately the installers are not

grahamc2003

richardc1983 wrote: »

I don't think the technology is that good at all for this unit. As I have said previously u are sucking warm air out the property and reclaiming this heat. You then have cold air being sucked through the building fabric to replace the air being extracted this air then adds to the heat load of the building, it is like having your windows open in winter while u have the heating on. U cannot rely on this type of system to provide the whole buildings heating requirements. Many commercial heat recovery systems that extract exhaust air will recover the heat then use this heat to heat the fresh air being brought into the building. They work along side the heating system thats all they do recover exhaust heat.

This nibe system extracts air from the building but the designers didn't take into account the cold fresh air replacing the air being sucked out. Te system would have been better using outdoor air for it's evaporator rather than room air. In summer though when you have the windows open then recovering the unwanted heat from the building then it would work perfect. However I don't think the nibe uses it's compressor above a certain outdoor temp. Pointless!

I suppose one possibility is that in the heat loss calcs, the warm air being sucked out to feed the unit was simply ignored (probably unintentionally, i.e. someone cocked up, possibly). Obviously, with the air mass required be the unit, the airflow would be quite large I should imagine, and if the house is modern and pretty well sealed, you'd expect the outside air to come blasting in from any vents installed (e.g. the window vents).

I don't see why the system uses the electric heater based on outside temerature. Surely it's the exhaust air temp which should govern that. At least then there is some method in their madness, in that after a while of 8kw electric heating, you'd hope the exhaust air was getting warm, so the heat pump could operate as designed (or rather operate without the 8kw heater).

I just don't see how such an exhaust system can possibly work as described on this thread - but obviously they do work under the right conditions. Are you certain that no ambient air is used to flow over the heatpump, and it is 100% exhaust air? (i.e. if 100%, the heat being used to heat the house is taken from the house itself! If we look at the steady state at zero ambient, then if the house loses 5kw through the walls, say 3kw through exhausted air, another 2kw sometimes for dhw, then you have to extract about 7kw from the exhaust air (the other 3kw coming from the power to the compressor - at a cop of 3.3). They are rough numbers (coud anyone improve on them?). I suppose that's theoretically feasible (so I take back what i said earlier being that it couldn't work!) - it's just the exhaust air flow rate required to acheive those numbers which seems to me would make a very draughty house.

Cardew

Without looking into these closely, I must admit I always thought that their advantage was in commercial applications where heat, that would otherwise be wasted, could enhance the ASHP output sent to another area. e.g. the heat exausted from a room in a factory where, say, ovens were used, could be sent via the ASHP to an unheated area.

richardc1983

Cardew wrote: »

Without looking into these closely, I must admit I always thought that their advantage was in commercial applications where heat, that would otherwise be wasted, could enhance the ASHP output sent to another area. e.g. the heat exausted from a room in a factory where, say, ovens were used, could be sent via the ASHP to an unheated area.

Or to heat cold fresh air being brought into the building.

VRF air conditioning systems make use of the heat extracted from areas of the building requiring cooling and send it to areas that require heating.

grahamc2003

ra200 wrote: »

Ok thanks for keeping us posted on your system i have sent you a pm btw,

I have got someone coming out on Friday now from melin/greenhill so hopefully they can sort something they did ask if we would keep it running for a year but I have spoken to my partner have we have both agreed not to do this because this is like saying we are lying and it also does not fix the problem that it is not warm upstairs unless the nibe is turned up full when is below 1c outside if I kept it on for a year next year I would be in the same position next year, I have taken legal advice on this now and have been told to tell them to provide a cost effective heating and hot water system or re-house us I have turned the nibe off all together from this afternoon until a cost effective system is available at the property and also my electricity supplier is coming out to put a token/key meter in the property as I refuse to pay the rest of the electric bill.

You're just causing yourself unnecessary trouble by not paying your electricity bill.

In any case, you will pay in the end, and also a lot more than your current bill. No point in doubling the number of people you are battling with (especially since you will lose a battle with your supplier).

While it may seem unfair, the electricity company isn't to blame for any of this. Ask your legal advisor to seek compensation for these large bills due to the heating system which isn't fit for its purpose.

ra200

Well guys just a update for you from 00.00am to 9.50am today the nibe has used £4.17p is 9 hours and 50min see below on the (energy monitor) that melin / greenhill gave us this is connected direct to the nibe 360p,

lovesgshp

Will they not give you a copy of the certificate, as that should give the thermal requirement of the house? Just a thought.