bit of advice about teenager who's lying and stealing

Uniscots97

tsstss7 wrote: »

yep know what you mean and not easy to do also - just remember to pick your battles and mitigate if necessary - ie if she really is going to have sex then mention condoms !! etc (although obviously you don't want to encourage it !!)

She obviously has a strong sense of her "right" to do as she wishes and this is very hard to combat. I just get the feeling that battling you and her dad has become a way for her to get attention and that calming things down in your household and introducing postitive praise where it is warrented might reap rewards.

Also maybe it would help if your were to assure her that you will be there for her even if sometimes she does make the wrong choices - I've taken my sisters side in a disagreement before now when it seems that she must be the guilty party (even when not sure) and have been proved right to do so!

Maybe a little confidence in her even before the event may pay off - (although I am not suggesting you keep giving in but more that you support her when you are not sure she is too blame - try not to risk anymore cakes though!)

The cake thing, I felt so sorry for my godson. I told youngest I'd tell them it fell on the floor but that she'd done wrong etc. She opened her mouth and thought it was funny telling my godson she'd eaten his cake! :eek:
I've reassured her many times I'm here for her, I'm usually the ones that goes and calms her down and each time she moans and says its not fair she wants to be trusted and each time I say to her "if you keep doing things like this why would people want to trust you. You have to show people you can be grown up".

I'm going to try and reintroduce postive behaviour rewards see how that goes but at the moment I just feel it goes in one ear with her and out the other. Sorry I'm ranting, I do love her and I want the best for her but I feel like I'm hitting my head off a brick wall.

Lunar_Eclipse

unixgirluk wrote: »

Update: Her Dad has decided she has to stay in her room (apart from meals etc) until she goes back to school after the holidays. No tv etc. She's refused to apologise to her Auntie.

Why? I don't understand the logic. All this does is communicate a conditional love message, which further reinforces the whole cycle IMO. 'We don't want you around us unless you behave how we want you to behave'. She is 14 and needs to know you all love her and accept her NO MATTER WHAT. (I know this is not what you might think/feel, but it's vital for her long term well being that she feels this is true.)

I'm not meaning to criticise, but I don't see how this is going to help. Sorry. It may however make her more distant and deceiving towards 'you' in the future since she may feel that she is not accepted or loved for who she is, so may decide to pretend in your presence perhaps? Just a thought.

You cannot force anyone to apologise. Although I would point out why you think she should be sorry and why an apology would be appreciated. Again, this is helping develop her longer term morale code. Her Aunt will manage fine without the apology. I am not condoning the behaviour by the way, just talking adult to adult.

I would bet that she isn't apologising because she is being forced to. My Dad made me apologise to my Mum once when I was 7. I made some comment about not wanting to eat the dinner she made me and he over-reacted, sent me to my room and told me I had to stay there until I wrote her an apology letter. I did it. But I didn't mean it. In fact I remember the event so vividly and recall thinking how stupid my Dad was (he's not) for thinking he had got one over on me. So because of this, I would never force my kids to do the same because I know that it is not the apology that is important at all. It is whether the child is remorseful. And then a genuine apology would make you all so proud.

Oh this is so tough. Keep going, you're doing well xxxx

Oldernotwiser

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

All this does is communicate a conditional love message, which further reinforces the whole cycle IMO. 'We don't want you around us unless you behave how we want you to behave'. She is 14 and needs to know you all love her and accept her NO MATTER WHAT. (I know this is not what you might think/feel, but it's vital for her long term well being that she feels this is true.)

Sorry, I think this whole unconditional love thing is something we've picked up from watching too many American "Oprah" type programmes. It may be true if you've actually given birth to a child but I don't think it's true otherwise. I'm afraid that this isn't a fashionable thing to say but I'm being honest here. Nobody loves someone who behaves badly and I don't think there's any point pretending that this is true.

Lunar_Eclipse

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Sorry, I think this whole unconditional love thing is something we've picked up from watching too many American "Oprah" type programmes. It may be true if you've actually given birth to a child but I don't think it's true otherwise. I'm afraid that this isn't a fashionable thing to say but I'm being honest here. Nobody loves someone who behaves badly and I don't think there's any point pretending that this is true.

I don't think fashion comes into it. Most parenting is conditional (and always has been). As in almost 100% in the UK. Less so in other countries I imagine.

I don't watch TV so I feel justified in completely disagreeing. I am not pretending anything either. I have witnessed first hand the results of unconditional parenting. And it is nothing short of miraculous. Research backs it up too. I'd keep an open mind since unconditional love is the most powerful thing in the world IMO.

And yes it is true 'if you've actually given birth to a child'. But I can only speak for myself, not everyone. I take it you haven't had children by your comment?

Anyhow, I don't wish to get evangelical, I'm just trying to help the OP and the 14 year old confused and reaching out.

Oldernotwiser

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

I don't think fashion comes into it. Most parenting is conditional (and always has been). As in almost 100% in the UK. Less so in other countries I imagine.

I don't watch TV so I feel justified in completely disagreeing. I am not pretending anything either. I have witnessed first hand the results of unconditional parenting. And it is nothing short of miraculous. Research backs it up too. I'd keep an open mind since unconditional love is the most powerful thing in the world IMO.

And yes it is true 'if you've actually given birth to a child'. But I can only speak for myself, not everyone. I take it you haven't had children by your comment?

Anyhow, I don't wish to get evangelical, I'm just trying to help the OP and the 14 year old confused and reaching out.

I assume you meant to say unconditional in your first paragraph.

With hindsight I can see that my parents would have loved me whatever I had done, short of the worst of crimes. When I was a teenager, though, it was often the thought of losing their love, or perhaps respect, that kept me from getting up to many undesirable things. If I'd thought they'd have loved me regardless of anything, pregnancy, drugs, crime, I don't think that I'd have been so careful to stay on the straight and narrow. It's an old fashioned view I know, but effective for many people for many years.

Lunar_Eclipse

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I assume you meant to say unconditional in your first paragraph.

No, I meant what I wrote - most parenting is conditional. Parents (naturally?) withdraw love/find it hard to love naughty/bad/difficult children. It is hard to do in itself, harder still since the important aspect is that the child feels loved, even when they mess up. Close to impossible maybe. But the ultimate gift none the less.

As you yourself said, you possibly behaved better because you were scared your parents would love you less if you didn't (or words to that effect I think). That shows the power of childrens' need for parental acceptance. Which is not the same as people acting responsibly and in a morale empathetic manner because they want to and believe it is the right thing to do (which ultimately must be what all parents want for their children - 'good' adults that are happy and healthy?) Thus we have fear based conditional parenting. Not the best parenting strategy IMO. I was raised on it too by the way (who wasn't?) It makes parenting much easier to have a child that tows the line ultimately because of fear of doing otherwise. But I'm not convinced it's best in the long run. Time will tell xx

slash69

ah unixgirl my heart goes out to you and your partner. personally i think you are both doing the right thing with her... she's old enough to know right from wrong no excuses and her actions are not just hurting herself but everyone around her...no matter how small
and yes i do remember being a teen and i was punished by being sent to my room and only allowed out for meals it didn't do me any harm and it also didnt mean that my parents loved me any less for it and i learnt not to misbehave again and i would use this punishment with dd if needed...
what's the saying ''if you want respect you have to earn it''
good luck hun and keep up the good work keep on doing what your doing and give her a big hug every day even when you feel like throttling her:grouphug:

jay11_2

Poor girl, what an awful cycle she's caught up in, and being rejected by her mum in such an obvious way can't have helped.

Poor you too unixgirl, I too think you're doing a great job, and my heart goes out to you all.

There's lots of great advice above, I'd only add trying to inject some positive times, where you consciously 9don't tell her) decide not to say anything negative/critical for a bit, be it 10 mins or an hour. Ignore negative behaviour for that time, unless it's something REALLY big, and find something positive to say, however small. Over time the time spans can be increased, so building up positive experiences.

Don't choose 'special' times, like trips out, as she probably feels a lot of pressure, almost like the suspense/anxiety of waiting for something to go wrong is so strong, that in the end she makes it, to escape the suspense/tension. Kicking her dad is a prime example--she doesn't want to spoil the the day--she loves you all--but believes it's inevietable, so makes it happen. Managing to behave in everyday activities is probably hard enough for now.

The key is to break the cycle and small windows of feeling good / things going well, will be a start, and can be built upon.

Lunar_Eclipse

jay11 wrote: »

trying to inject some positive times, where you consciously (don't tell her) decide not to say anything negative/critical for a bit, be it 10 mins or an hour. Ignore negative behaviour for that time, unless it's something REALLY big, and find something positive to say, however small. Over time the time spans can be increased, so building up positive experiences.

Just checking in again .... hope things are good Unixgirl.

Really good idea.

Agree with the rest of your post too.

Good job on the weight loss btw.

RoxieW

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

Why? I don't understand the logic. All this does is communicate a conditional love message, which further reinforces the whole cycle IMO. 'We don't want you around us unless you behave how we want you to behave'. She is 14 and needs to know you all love her and accept her NO MATTER WHAT. (I know this is not what you might think/feel, but it's vital for her long term well being that she feels this is true.)

I'm not meaning to criticise, but I don't see how this is going to help. Sorry. It may however make her more distant and deceiving towards 'you' in the future since she may feel that she is not accepted or loved for who she is, so may decide to pretend in your presence perhaps? Just a thought.

You cannot force anyone to apologise. Although I would point out why you think she should be sorry and why an apology would be appreciated. Again, this is helping develop her longer term morale code. Her Aunt will manage fine without the apology. I am not condoning the behaviour by the way, just talking adult to adult.

I would bet that she isn't apologising because she is being forced to. My Dad made me apologise to my Mum once when I was 7. I made some comment about not wanting to eat the dinner she made me and he over-reacted, sent me to my room and told me I had to stay there until I wrote her an apology letter. I did it. But I didn't mean it. In fact I remember the event so vividly and recall thinking how stupid my Dad was (he's not) for thinking he had got one over on me. So because of this, I would never force my kids to do the same because I know that it is not the apology that is important at all. It is whether the child is remorseful. And then a genuine apology would make you all so proud.

Oh this is so tough. Keep going, you're doing well xxxx

I agree. She seems to spend a lot of time in her room all day long which just tells her that noone wants her around them. It is like she's a massive inconvenience and I'm sure she feels it.

Not meaning to be harsh with my earlier post - just trying to give you food for thought as you seem to be agreeing with the 'harsher' posts and not addressing the big issues - ie the fact that she's an outcast and disliked by practically everyone in her life, including her mother and seemingly her father, which must be a huge deal for her.

If you do decide to go down the counseling route then please offer it to her as an option not 'well we're at our wits end with you, your going to see a shrink' (she will see it this way!).

Please dont be defensive - I'm not suggesting that you dont love her and want her to do well (although it must be difficult as she is not 'your' child) - but there is only so much you can protect a 14 year old from. She will be able to do as she pleases very shortly and as I said before, if she doesnt feel loved/wanted by her family she will seek this elsewhere and may very well end up pregnant or with an unsuitable man at a far too young age.

I am genuinely trying to help here - I'm not intending to have a go at you. The fact that I was posting advice for the most of yesterday and have been thinking about it last night is testament to how this thread has affected me. I think perhaps as I always felt like the outsider at home and it did have a massive effect on my self esteem and my life generally. As soon as I turned 16 I was off and have had virtually no contact with my family since - so I know the consequences of this type of situation well.