bit of advice about teenager who's lying and stealing

Uniscots97

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Hard as it sounds, I have to say that they would actually have the RIGHT impression of her.

Deep down I know you're right but I do love her and I want her to do well. I've told her this many times as has her Dad. She has a chance of a fresh start which isn't that common I really hope she takes it. As for her family I do stick up for her, she knows this and I have spoken to her about it. Don't know how many times I said to her over the weekend, "you keep saying you want to be trusted, but how can people trust you if you lie and go behind their backs, put yourself in their shoes if your pal kept lying to you would you trust them"? She just shrugs her shoulders at this. I've just spoken to my OH and he sounds so fed up. She's in her room (no tv etc) and isn't allowed out until they go back to school. The so-called boyfriend apparently has left messages on her phone but I know she won't believe us he's no good unfortunately she'll have to work that one out for herself.

Oldernotwiser

The trouble is that kids like these don't want to get involved in structured activities as they're too much effort. Neither do they want to do anything where any minimum standard of behaviour is expected. It's the street corner syndrome where NO effort is required. That's also what's wrong with being friendly with nice kids, it's an effort to behave when you're with them; it's easy being with the bad guys as they expect nothing.

Uniscots97

splishsplash wrote: »

Like I said, I think you're doing an excellent job, but it's you and her against the world, so it won't go smoothly - and you won't get far for a long time, and then only a little... but please continue, you sound like you're really looking out for her.
Ok, she didn't make it to the summer holidays (but again, the basic expectation was that she wouldn't, wasn't it?), have you told her how you were looking forward to the day out and are sorry you won't get the chance to do it?
Maybe you could set a new goal - building on the positive rather than coming from the negative? For example, if you get all your homework done by 9pm tonight, you can watch the finale of ANTM? :rotfl: (Yes, that's the deal in my house tonight!)
If she manages it, then tomorrow, refer to it at least once or twice, and praise her for getting the homework done on time (ok, it's weak, but work with me here!).
My 14 year old is currently swimming (must go and collect her in a minute) - the pool is in a hotel, and costs me a blimmin fortune, but it's that or hang out on street corners with a lot of other kids - so it's money well spent, in my book.
Maybe have a think about getting her involved in some structured activity again?

Yeah I did tell her I was looking forward to taking her out and her answer was "I'm no different to other teenagers". We all know she is. Friends teeenagers who have been through a rough patch get punished and never do it again. She's burnt a lot of bridges by her actions. She's now saying she wants to go back to the drama group, but they won't accept her! I checked with other drama groups in the area but they are all managed by the same person so she's barred. :mad: . I suggested karate (it's what sorted me out), was told it was boring. Suggested getting bikes, answer was no. Suggested a craft workshop to learn how to make jewellery (2 hours), she's thinking about this one.

Uniscots97

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

The trouble is that kids like these don't want to get involved in structured activities as they're too much effort. Neither do they want to do anything where any minimum standard of behaviour is expected. It's the street corner syndrome where NO effort is required. That's also what's wrong with being friendly with nice kids, it's an effort to behave when you're with them; it's easy being with the bad guys as they expect nothing.

As you can from above I tried suggesting karate classes amongst other things to her and the answer was no. I agree with you about the street corner behaviour. The last time she saw my colleague's daughter she started with her lies saying she was starting the school that girl goes to. My colleagues daughter knew it wasn't true as although I work with one of her parents we live in different towns. This behaviour put my colleague's daughter off hanging about with our youngest.

splishsplash

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

The trouble is that kids like these don't want to get involved in structured activities as they're too much effort. Neither do they want to do anything where any minimum standard of behaviour is expected. It's the street corner syndrome where NO effort is required. That's also what's wrong with being friendly with nice kids, it's an effort to behave when you're with them; it's easy being with the bad guys as they expect nothing.

But because we love them and are responsible for them, we try to make sure they never become the street corner kids.
We do this by giving them something higher to aim for, and help them get there the best way we can.
If she's told again and again how good she is at messing up, and constantly told what she's not doing right, how can she ever hope to do any better?

How do you suggest the OP handles the situation, out of interest?

RoxieW

Just checking in again and I have to say OP it seems like you dont want to hear. It seems like you've made your mind up about this girl and that she's a bit of a lost cause. Thats a real shame.

Abou tthe kicking incident -your comment about what the brother said really wound me up. Its like the three of you against her! So she kicked him maybe it was an accident - maybe it was her brother? But the three of you jump on her and she's like, oh, here we go again! Stuff it!

I agree with her that she is just doing what her friends are doing - you say they get punished and learn from it but it doesnt really sound like it the way you describe her friends ie the one who brags about having chlamydia.

Bottom line, she's acting like a 14 year old. I stand by every thing i've said.
She needs firm boundaries and lots and lots of love and praise. She's crying out. Please dont give up one her.

You seem to coming down on the side of the hard line 'she's a bad un' replies and I'm sure this opinion must come across at home. Believe me, I'm sure she knows exactly what everyone thinks of her. If I was her, when every single member of my family, friends, teachers etc dont like me, I'd be feeling pretty rotten on a daily basis.

tsstss7

Hi just wanted to give a quick post as this girl sounds very like my sister was from a very young age - perhaps not to such a degree, but she did have a tendancy of always befriending children who liked to control her and behave badly towards her (violence in some cases) - it would annoy me as both my sister and my mother would constantly forgive these children and allow them back into the family home dispite the way they had behaved! I did eventaully manage to persuade my mother not to keep allowing these childen to use my sister in this way and after an initial period of "adjustment" this trouble stopped happening - however my sister then went on to make even more bad friendships ....and so it went on until she left school (and a small period beyond)!

My sister too would lie about seemingly rediculous things and as much as I loved her I stopped believing or putting much store in what she told me.

However she is now 19 and this has all but stopped since she left home and gained financial independance - we have a good relationship as I have just had to accept that the lying is just her way of dealing with things even if I don't really see a great need for her to do so. I have even gone so far as to tell her that she is allowed to say that she does not want to answer a question rather than lie! lol. tbh I think it is just her default position because she does not have the confidence in herself to be able to justify her choices but wants to make them nonetheless.

Best advise I could give is try not to dwell too much on past transgressions for your own sake as much as for hers but do continue to insist on good behaviour even if it is not always lived up to.

Also accept that she may always use lying as a way of getting what she wants and try not to let it upset your life too much. from my pov it seems like this girl gets a lot of attention for her bad behaviour and you could do with minimising disruption in your lives too - it must be ever so stressful!!

With the greatest will in the world you cannot make your dd's choices for her and if she choses to muck up parts of her life by being unreliable etc it might be better to let her draw her own conclusions/make amends etc rather than finding ways of always giving her more chances.

Uniscots97

RoxieW wrote: »

Just checking in again and I have to say OP it seems like you dont want to hear. It seems like you've made your mind up about this girl and that she's a bit of a lost cause. Thats a real shame.

Abou tthe kicking incident -your comment about what the brother said really wound me up. Its like the three of you against her! So she kicked him maybe it was an accident - maybe it was her brother? But the three of you jump on her and she's like, oh, here we go again! Stuff it!

I agree with her that she is just doing what her friends are doing - you say they get punished and learn from it but it doesnt really sound like it the way you describe her friends ie the one who brags about having chlamydia.

Bottom line, she's acting like a 14 year old. I stand by every thing i've said.
She needs firm boundaries and lots and lots of love and praise. She's crying out. Please dont give up one her.

You seem to coming down on the side of the hard line 'she's a bad un' replies and I'm sure this opinion must come across at home. Believe me, I'm sure she knows exactly what everyone thinks of her. If I was her, when every single member of my family, friends, teachers etc dont like me, I'd be feeling pretty rotten on a daily basis.

How am I not wanting to hear it? Please reread what I've written, I love her and want her to do well. I'm the one thats sticks up for her and talks things through with her. The only thing I don't get is even after rewards for positive behaviour every time she still goes back to old ways. The kicking incident wasn't just one kick is was many kicks even after she was asked to stop (nicely). It wasn't her brother as he was sat the other side of me on the bench as we were all sat in a row. Even after being asked nicely she didn't stop and said it wasn't her.
I am not saying she's bad, far from it. But I can see why people think she's bad, there's a big difference. I've tried explaining to her how other people see it.

Her 'friends' don't learn from it as they get no discipline as their parents/guardians don't give a hoot. Its MY friends kids (similar age) who do seem to learn after being punished for doing something wrong. Even though she'll promise to behave (and gets a reward for good behaviour) it goes back to the same old story. I've tried reasoning with her, talking to her, staying calm. I'm the one asking for help here. But we will not let her away with something if she's done wrong, that would be like rewarding bad behaviour or telling her she can do what she likes. Unlike her so-called mates we actually care about her and want her to make something of herself so she's happy not end up dead after glue sniffing etc.

Uniscots97

tsstss7 wrote: »

My sister too would lie about seemingly rediculous things and as much as I loved her I stopped believing or putting much store in what she told me.

Best advise I could give is try not to dwell too much on past transgressions for your own sake as much as for hers but do continue to insist on good behaviour even if it is not always lived up to.

Also accept that she may always use lying as a way of getting what she wants and try not to let it upset your life too much. from my pov it seems like this girl gets a lot of attention for her bad behaviour and you could do with minimising disruption in your lives too - it must be ever so stressful!!

With the greatest will in the world you cannot make your dd's choices for her and if she choses to muck up parts of her life by being unreliable etc it might be better to let her draw her own conclusions/make amends etc rather than finding ways of always giving her more chances.

Sound advice but we don't want her making a mistake that can't be rectified if you know what I mean, i.e. HIV, pregnancy (yes I know some people would suggest abortion but even that would leave a mental scar), accidental drug overdose (in one case we know of someone who died the first time they sniffed glue). we only want to protect her. I do agree she probably gets a lot of attention because of her bad behaviour but its a big family and they're only trying to help. we've approached it differently this time in that she has to stay in her room, no more shouting and conversations stay civil. We definitely won't put up with her stealing especially from us.

tsstss7

unixgirluk wrote: »

Sound advice but we don't want her making a mistake that can't be rectified if you know what I mean, i.e. HIV, pregnancy (yes I know some people would suggest abortion but even that would leave a mental scar), accidental drug overdose (in one case we know of someone who died the first time they sniffed glue). we only want to protect her. I do agree she probably gets a lot of attention because of her bad behaviour but its a big family and they're only trying to help. we've approached it differently this time in that she has to stay in her room, no more shouting and conversations stay civil. We definitely won't put up with her stealing especially from us.

yep know what you mean and not easy to do also - just remember to pick your battles and mitigate if necessary - ie if she really is going to have sex then mention condoms !! etc (although obviously you don't want to encourage it !!)

She obviously has a strong sense of her "right" to do as she wishes and this is very hard to combat. I just get the feeling that battling you and her dad has become a way for her to get attention and that calming things down in your household and introducing postitive praise where it is warrented might reap rewards.

Also maybe it would help if your were to assure her that you will be there for her even if sometimes she does make the wrong choices - I've taken my sisters side in a disagreement before now when it seems that she must be the guilty party (even when not sure) and have been proved right to do so!

Maybe a little confidence in her even before the event may pay off - (although I am not suggesting you keep giving in but more that you support her when you are not sure she is too blame - try not to risk anymore cakes though!)