bit of advice about teenager who's lying and stealing

misty

unixgirluk wrote: »

She's actually still at school thankfully as she's 14. Her behaviour has always been like this even in primary school. She was the only pupil ever to be suspended from her primary school! In some subjects she's doing ok, in others she can't be @rsed basically. She's a bright kid. I sit down with her and her brother and go through their homework with them (I'm qualified to teach a lot of the subjects they study but I'm not working as a teacher at the moment), and try and encourage them but the school really don't want to know about her anymore. Kind of final straw thing with her I guess.


I realise there is a lot of detail, if I'd put all of it in initially I'd have probably have been there for a couple of hours typing it and put people off with all the text.

If she's still in school - then they can't adopt an we don't want to know her approach - they need to be providing some pastoral support for her and explaining what you can do together school/home to support each other.

I would try for the councelling route though - I take on board what another poster said about looking like she is a bit mad. However, it would give her the opportunity to talk to someone with a neutral approach.

It does seem as if she does like you and this is something - you're not seem as the enemy (the evil step mother).
I think you need to be consistant in your praise and avoid losing your rags over the small stuff - save grounding and banning of things for the bigger stuff.

seven-day-weekend

splishsplash wrote: »

I really feel sorry for this little girl (and I do believe at 14 she's still just a child).
I think you have to start over, really. It will be an uphill struggle, and you've made a good start with the day out in the mall and the under 18 club conspiracy, but it's going to take an awful lot more than that...

I totally agree with RoxieW and Lunar on this, and feel myself coming down firmly on the side of the child.

I missed the thing about the teacher's wallet, but nothing else sound like it's terribly serious. It sounds like she's getting punished and hauled over the coals for every little thing. She has learned from her dad and other members of her family that she's just a troublemaker and a failure, and she has given up.

I'm not surprised by the lying and the cutting class, I'd expect it, given the story we've been told. It seems like her self-esteem is in her boots, and no-one is bolstering it very much.

Her dad needs to watch what he says too - what did he accomplish by that comment about the new school? What did that say to the child - 'I expect you to mess up - I'm just giving you advance notice of that fact' is what it would tell me.

Likewise, at the mall - just for once, being the adult and in the spirit of the day, why didn't her dad just get up and move away under the pretext of going to the bathroom or something after the first kick? That way, he could have prevented the day out being ruined. As someone else has said, a comment like 'This was a great idea - I've really had fun - well done (insert name here)' could have turned things around nice and quickly.

I'm just wondering, on a day-to-day basis, if she wrote down all the negative comments/looks/vibes that she gets from everyone in one column, and all the positive comments/looks/vibes in another, which would be the longer column?

It sounds like you're doing a terrific job, but with teenagers, I think you have to be careful to pick your battles. In the grand scheme of things, you don't want her to go out, get drunk, get an STD or pregnant, or get beaten up and/or killed. The phone, chocolate biscuit and ankle kicks are not cause for battles. If you don't weight your priorities, nor will she.

Maybe because to him, as to me, that gives the message to the girl that it is perfectly acceptable to kick your dad and he will just go belly-up and let you get away with it.

This thread is winding me up, so I'll go.

I wish the OP and her family well and will just say that the girl will not be 14 for ever, let's hope she gets better as she matures.

tamarto

splishsplash wrote: »

I'm just wondering, on a day-to-day basis, if she wrote down all the negative comments/looks/vibes that she gets from everyone in one column, and all the positive comments/looks/vibes in another, which would be the longer column?

And how much it would shock the adults to see how negative they are towards her warranted or not.

Uniscots97

splishsplash wrote: »

I really feel sorry for this little girl (and I do believe at 14 she's still just a child).
I think you have to start over, really. It will be an uphill struggle, and you've made a good start with the day out in the mall and the under 18 club conspiracy, but it's going to take an awful lot more than that...

I totally agree with RoxieW and Lunar on this, and feel myself coming down firmly on the side of the child.

I missed the thing about the teacher's wallet, but nothing else sound like it's terribly serious. It sounds like she's getting punished and hauled over the coals for every little thing. She has learned from her dad and other members of her family that she's just a troublemaker and a failure, and she has given up.

I'm not surprised by the lying and the cutting class, I'd expect it, given the story we've been told. It seems like her self-esteem is in her boots, and no-one is bolstering it very much.

Her dad needs to watch what he says too - what did he accomplish by that comment about the new school? What did that say to the child - 'I expect you to mess up - I'm just giving you advance notice of that fact' is what it would tell me.

Likewise, at the mall - just for once, being the adult and in the spirit of the day, why didn't her dad just get up and move away under the pretext of going to the bathroom or something after the first kick? That way, he could have prevented the day out being ruined. As someone else has said, a comment like 'This was a great idea - I've really had fun - well done (insert name here)' could have turned things around nice and quickly.

I'm just wondering, on a day-to-day basis, if she wrote down all the negative comments/looks/vibes that she gets from everyone in one column, and all the positive comments/looks/vibes in another, which would be the longer column?

It sounds like you're doing a terrific job, but with teenagers, I think you have to be careful to pick your battles. In the grand scheme of things, you don't want her to go out, get drunk, get an STD or pregnant, or get beaten up and/or killed. The phone, chocolate biscuit and ankle kicks are not cause for battles. If you don't weight your priorities, nor will she.

I think she's still a child too, but unfortunately she doesn't. Her so-called friends are allowed to drink, smoke, have casual sex because their parents don't care. The girl with chlamydia gets given a tenner on a friday night so her mother can 'entertain' her boyfriends, and yes I mean plural! She's surrounded by an influence that says at 14 she should be doing all the wrong things her friends are doing. we're only trying to keep her safe.

The reason for getting into trouble is we don't want her thinking she can either be rewarded for bad behaviour or thinking she can do as she likes. I'm hoping that starting at the new school she'll see that parents of her so-called current mates don't really want kids and don't want them around hence they let them do whatever and one of them at 14 has ended up with chlamydia!

The kicking thing, her Dad did stay calm and did ask her not to kick him. Even her brother agreed say sorry and thats an end to it. He got angry because she lied and said she hadn't done it when she clearly had more than once. when she asked me before why people don't believe her I did say to her it was because she always said it wasn't her even if there was proof. I told her we all make mistakes but it takes the bigger person to admit they were wrong and if she did admit to things maybe people wouldn't be so quick to judge.

But going back to what I said before if she lies about the little things, what else isn't she telling us? With the little things she'll even lie to me, even though I have repeatedly told her she won't get into trouble. I've tried to say to her using the example of the time she put hot hair straighteners directly onto her duvet cover and melted the duvet onto the cover (I didn't give her into trouble over this just explained she could have caused a fire), that she may not mean to do things (or not know) but in that case it was her room and only she could have done it so if she said it wasn't her it makes her look bad because we'd know she was lying. But this still didn't get through to her. That incident I promised I wouldn't tell her Dad about and haven't. She now puts her hair straighteners onto a heat mat. But she still will lie even when she knows we know it was her, its so infuriating.

Uniscots97

misty wrote: »

If she's still in school - then they can't adopt an we don't want to know her approach - they need to be providing some pastoral support for her and explaining what you can do together school/home to support each other.

I would try for the councelling route though - I take on board what another poster said about looking like she is a bit mad. However, it would give her the opportunity to talk to someone with a neutral approach.

It does seem as if she does like you and this is something - you're not seem as the enemy (the evil step mother).
I think you need to be consistant in your praise and avoid losing your rags over the small stuff - save grounding and banning of things for the bigger stuff.

I think the counsellor is a very good idea and I think we'll pursue that. She's never seen me as the enemy as I've always taken time to listen to her but it even infuriates me when she promises me she won't do it again and then does.
I gave her an incentive the last time she got into trouble to stay out of trouble. I said to her if she could get to the summer holidays without trouble, attending every class and get an A in at least one class test I'd take her shopping and give her 50 quid to spend. At the time she said "easy, I can do that no problem. Can we go to jane norman and quiz and then for pizza"? My answer was yes and I got a huge grin and she promised me she'd behave. Then this happens. :mad:

splishsplash

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Maybe because to him, as to me, that gives the message to the girl that it is perfectly acceptable to kick your dad and he will just go belly-up and let you get away with it.

This thread is winding me up, so I'll go.

I wish the OP and her family well and will just say that the girl will not be 14 for ever, let's hope she gets better as she matures.

Read it again - I said JUST FOR ONCE and IN THE SPIRIT OF THE DAY...in the context that a successful day out would reap far greater rewards long term than yet another tongue-lashing which leaves everyone feeling 'she had to ruin it, didn't she!' and the little girl feeling 'why should I bother, I can't do anything right'.

I don't for a minute find it acceptable that a child would kick her father at any time, nor do I find it acceptable that a child would ever tell lies, but you have to pick your battles. In the light of the OP, those are a bit further down on the list of priorities for now. Once the bigger stuff is sorted, then start on the other things.

Incidentally, OP, you say several times 'why doesn't she learn?'.... it seems to me she's doing an excellent job of learning to give up before she starts.

Uniscots97

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Maybe because to him, as to me, that gives the message to the girl that it is perfectly acceptable to kick your dad and he will just go belly-up and let you get away with it.

as you said we're trying to teach her right from wrong and she did get asked to stop. She does talk quite cheekily to some people which I've said to her she needs to be careful of or people might get the wrong impression about her.

Uniscots97

splishsplash wrote: »

Read it again - I said JUST FOR ONCE and IN THE SPIRIT OF THE DAY...in the context that a successful day out would reap far greater rewards long term than yet another tongue-lashing which leaves everyone feeling 'she had to ruin it, didn't she!' and the little girl feeling 'why should I bother, I can't do anything right'.

I don't for a minute find it acceptable that a child would kick her father at any time, nor do I find it acceptable that a child would ever tell lies, but you have to pick your battles. In the light of the OP, those are a bit further down on the list of priorities for now. Once the bigger stuff is sorted, then start on the other things.

Incidentally, OP, you say several times 'why doesn't she learn?'.... it seems to me she's doing an excellent job of learning to give up before she starts.

She's had rewards for good behaviour and spoken to like an adult instead of us shouting. She was asked to stop the kicking, but did it again. I can see why my partner wasn't pleased. He's not long had surgery and shouldn't be getting kicked, she knows this. I sat her down before the surgery and explained it all and we spoke about it each day after we went to see him in hospital to see if she had any questions as I know hospitals can be scary places.

Oldernotwiser

unixgirluk wrote: »

She does talk quite cheekily to some people which I've said to her she needs to be careful of or people might get the wrong impression about her.

Hard as it sounds, I have to say that they would actually have the RIGHT impression of her.

splishsplash

unixgirluk wrote: »

I think the counsellor is a very good idea and I think we'll pursue that. She's never seen me as the enemy as I've always taken time to listen to her but it even infuriates me when she promises me she won't do it again and then does.
I gave her an incentive the last time she got into trouble to stay out of trouble. I said to her if she could get to the summer holidays without trouble, attending every class and get an A in at least one class test I'd take her shopping and give her 50 quid to spend. At the time she said "easy, I can do that no problem. Can we go to jane norman and quiz and then for pizza"? My answer was yes and I got a huge grin and she promised me she'd behave. Then this happens. :mad:

Like I said, I think you're doing an excellent job, but it's you and her against the world, so it won't go smoothly - and you won't get far for a long time, and then only a little... but please continue, you sound like you're really looking out for her.
Ok, she didn't make it to the summer holidays (but again, the basic expectation was that she wouldn't, wasn't it?), have you told her how you were looking forward to the day out and are sorry you won't get the chance to do it?
Maybe you could set a new goal - building on the positive rather than coming from the negative? For example, if you get all your homework done by 9pm tonight, you can watch the finale of ANTM? :rotfl: (Yes, that's the deal in my house tonight!)
If she manages it, then tomorrow, refer to it at least once or twice, and praise her for getting the homework done on time (ok, it's weak, but work with me here!).
My 14 year old is currently swimming (must go and collect her in a minute) - the pool is in a hotel, and costs me a blimmin fortune, but it's that or hang out on street corners with a lot of other kids - so it's money well spent, in my book.
Maybe have a think about getting her involved in some structured activity again?