bit of advice about teenager who's lying and stealing

Uniscots97

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I think maybe a school mentor or counsellor would be better initially than a child psychologist, as the girl may see this as you saying she is 'crazy'.

It has to be someone she trusts and whose opinion she respects.

If there is no-one like this around already, perhaps a quiet word in the ears of the appropriate people at her new school?

Sorry I can't be more help, I'm out of my depth on this omne.

Hope it all works out OK.

The school have washed their hands of her so no avenues of help there at her current school. One of the girls she hangs around with has been expelled now so the rest were told they could leave at 15 if they wanted and the school would get them into college..........we both know this means the school don't want her.

misty

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

When she says she wants to be trusted, what she means is she wants to do what she likes.

The fact that people here agree with what this girl says that "this is what teenagers do" shows how adults have given up on their responsibilities of guiding and disciplining the young people they're responsible for. When both adults and teenagers agree that there's nothing wrong with this behaviour then no extra explanation is needed for the behaviour we see in our streets all the time. The OP is trying to do the right thing but is being undermined by other adults who can't be bothered!

Nobody was trying to suggest that what the girl was doing was acceptable - only that it is something that it is not unheard of in teenagers. Nor does it mean that anybody has given up on anything let alone guiding people and/or disciplining them. It was meant to put things into some perspective for the OP and make them feel less alone. The OP has said this approach hasn't so far worked and was looking for ideas. Just because it isn't your approach doesn't mean people can't be bothered.

The OP wrote a long piece - when people asked about things was able to add more detail such as the driving license which wasn't in the original post and this does add a different light as there are a series of serious incidents rather than one serious and other minor incidents which I think deflected from the other things.

To the OP has the girl's behaviour always been this way, or has it altered for the worse more recently? How is she doing at school? Could you talk to whoever her is in charge of her pastoral care there? They may be able to offer suggestions and or speak to her within the school setting - she may be more liable to explain her behaviour to someone outside of the situation.

sorry - you posted in between. If she has left school - then maybe connextions could help?

RoxieW

I dont think the small things are inexplicable. it quite obv to me that she's lying because she doesnt believe that she wont get into trouble for it. quite logically in my opinion, as why would your parents bring it up if they didnt mind? she's defensive so lies.

I really do not think that a child psychologist or counsellor is going to help the situation.

From her perspective -

Her mum doesnt want to know her (A huge, huge massive thing - believe me, I've been there and it has a profound effect on a child).

Her friends beat her up.

Her 'boyfriend' hates her.

Her cousin stirs trouble by telling tales to the rest of the family.

Her brother is ashamed to have her as a sister.

She has to move schools but is so 'bad' that it doesnt want her.

The friends you've orchestrated dont like her.

The family see her as 'bad'.

Her Dad thinks she's going to mess up.

Poor girl is all I can say! I think the last thing she needs is her family saying you're so bad/crazy (how she'll see it!) we're getting you professionally seen.

At the end of the day she's messed up big with the teachers purse thing but the rest is very typical teenage behaviour.

It seems to me like you are the only thing close to a friend she has at the moment. I notice those who are of the 'teenagers running loose, fault of parents being a soft touch' school of thought didnt have a practical suggestion to help.

I've been thinking alot about this, seriously, and i really think that you coming down hard on her will make matters worse.

At that age, all we can do is try to guide them - they will do their own thing in the end whether we like it or not! In 2 short years she could leave home and do whatever she likes. Dont push her away from her family into the arms of an unsuitable boyfriend/friend/drugs/dead end job or whatever other means of escape she will take to leave home.

I'd say try and be the friend that she seems to be desperately crying out for.

Lunar_Eclipse

I have that 'why won't you learn' with my 8 year old (obviously about different stuff!) so I know where you're coming from on that front.

I know this is really hard for you & OH to live with and try to rationalise, but reading between the lines, I think this girl is in a very sad and lonely place right now. If she's honest I suspect that she doesn't like herself that much. And is probably scared about the move, new school etc too. I would be. And I'm not 14 and hormonal with separated parents.

She has no friends and I'm fairly sure is well aware of that, not that she'll ever admit it to you and OH so long as they can be blamed to some degree for her behaviour.

Not too sure what to advise to be honest, but am sending you some good luck vibes. I'd try to be careful not to lower her self esteem further and make sure there is an obvious reward for good behaviour - not just that more punishments happen. I'm not sure how long she has been grounded for, but if it's for more than a day/weekend, she'll end up thinking 'oh what's the point' and not know (or care) how to get things back on track. So I'd be clear that she knows what her reward is for changing?

And during this difficult time, I would try to make sure that your OH tells her how much he loves her, just that sometimes her behaviour is unacceptable. Maybe he does this already, I just know men can often struggle more than women in expressing such stuff. She'll need to hear it a lot and be given lots of love and cuddles daily. And then I bet (hope!) the behaviour will improve.

Good luck. It's hard being and living with a teenager. You sound like you are doing a good job at being there for her and talking things through which is great.

Reading your message has just inspired me to give my eldest a big hug. Thanks and good luck.

RoxieW

i totally agree with lunar

Lunar_Eclipse

RoxieW wrote: »

It seems to me like you are the only thing close to a friend she has at the moment.


I'd say try and be the friend that she seems to be desperately crying out for.

Personally, that sums it all up for me (and brought tears to my eyes).

I really really feel for this girl. She has no-one and seemingly endless punishments (sorry if it's not quite like that - I know everyone is trying to do what's right). It's impossible for her to turn things around without a LOT of love and support. Help her and you'll have her and your OH for life! :T

Uniscots97

misty wrote: »

Nobody was trying to suggest that what the girl was doing was acceptable - only that it is something that it is not unheard of in teenagers. Nor does it mean that anybody has given up on anything let alone guiding people and/or disciplining them. It was meant to put things into some perspective for the OP and make them feel less alone. The OP has said this approach hasn't so far worked and was looking for ideas. Just because it isn't your approach doesn't mean people can't be bothered.

The OP wrote a long piece - when people asked about things was able to add more detail such as the driving license which wasn't in the original post and this does add a different light as there are a series of serious incidents rather than one serious and other minor incidents which I think deflected from the other things.

To the OP has the girl's behaviour always been this way, or has it altered for the worse more recently? How is she doing at school? Could you talk to whoever her is in charge of her pastoral care there? They may be able to offer suggestions and or speak to her within the school setting - she may be more liable to explain her behaviour to someone outside of the situation.

sorry - you posted in between. If she has left school - then maybe connextions could help?

She's actually still at school thankfully as she's 14. Her behaviour has always been like this even in primary school. She was the only pupil ever to be suspended from her primary school! In some subjects she's doing ok, in others she can't be @rsed basically. She's a bright kid. I sit down with her and her brother and go through their homework with them (I'm qualified to teach a lot of the subjects they study but I'm not working as a teacher at the moment), and try and encourage them but the school really don't want to know about her anymore. Kind of final straw thing with her I guess.


I realise there is a lot of detail, if I'd put all of it in initially I'd have probably have been there for a couple of hours typing it and put people off with all the text.

Uniscots97

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

I have that 'why won't you learn' with my 8 year old (obviously about different stuff!) so I know where you're coming from on that front.

I know this is really hard for you & OH to live with and try to rationalise, but reading between the lines, I think this girl is in a very sad and lonely place right now. If she's honest I suspect that she doesn't like herself that much. And is probably scared about the move, new school etc too. I would be. And I'm not 14 and hormonal with separated parents.

She has no friends and I'm fairly sure is well aware of that, not that she'll ever admit it to you and OH so long as they can be blamed to some degree for her behaviour.

Not too sure what to advise to be honest, but am sending you some good luck vibes. I'd try to be careful not to lower her self esteem further and make sure there is an obvious reward for good behaviour - not just that more punishments happen. I'm not sure how long she has been grounded for, but if it's for more than a day/weekend, she'll end up thinking 'oh what's the point' and not know (or care) how to get things back on track. So I'd be clear that she knows what her reward is for changing?

And during this difficult time, I would try to make sure that your OH tells her how much he loves her, just that sometimes her behaviour is unacceptable. Maybe he does this already, I just know men can often struggle more than women in expressing such stuff. She'll need to hear it a lot and be given lots of love and cuddles daily. And then I bet (hope!) the behaviour will improve.

Good luck. It's hard being and living with a teenager. You sound like you are doing a good job at being there for her and talking things through which is great.

Reading your message has just inspired me to give my eldest a big hug. Thanks and good luck.

We have tried the reward thing etc for her improved behaviour she got her room done up and when she helped me out when her Dad was in hospital I bought her a top she wanted and said to her "I really appreciate how you've been, you've helped out and its nice seeing you smile even though your Dad's not well so this is just my way of saying good on you". I really thought she got it that day, I really did. 3 weeks later and she was skipping class again. I could have screamed. I realise she's in a difficult position with her so -called friends but she's been offered the chance to make new nice friends by my godson and not taken it.

Uniscots97

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

Personally, that sums it all up for me (and brought tears to my eyes).

I really really feel for this girl. She has no-one and seemingly endless punishments (sorry if it's not quite like that - I know everyone is trying to do what's right). It's impossible for her to turn things around without a LOT of love and support. Help her and you'll have her and your OH for life! :T

I know what you're saying Lunar but as I said in another post she got rewarded for good behaviour so why keep on with the negative behaviour, when all that happens is she loses priviledges?

Lunar_Eclipse

unixgirluk wrote: »

I'm trying to show that even with that when she's asked not to use something or to ask (she helped herself to a chocolate cake she was asked not to touch as it was for my godson's birthday) she still does as she likes no matter how she's punished.

Exactly! She knows she'll always be punished for something or other so just does what she likes. I think there is just a negative downward spiral pattern of behaviour that needs to be broken.

Have you tried guidance and request as opposed to control? ie it would be helpful if you could do x, instead of you are not allowed to do y?

She sounds very alike my eldest,. Stubborn. Needs to make her own decisions. Will not be told. (But placid in the main). Please try to reduce the control over her. I find it difficult, but it's the only thing that works IMO, so it's utterly pointless refusing to change the way one interracts with her.

And try to keep a long term perspective. She shows initiative, guts etc which whilst hard to handle, are much better in the long run that the 100% obedient sheep like child (adult!)