bit of advice about teenager who's lying and stealing

RoxieW

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

When she says she wants to be trusted, what she means is she wants to do what she likes.

The fact that people here agree with what this girl says that "this is what teenagers do" shows how adults have given up on their responsibilities of guiding and disciplining the young people they're responsible for. When both adults and teenagers agree that there's nothing wrong with this behaviour then no extra explanation is needed for the behaviour we see in our streets all the time. The OP is trying to do the right thing but is being undermined by other adults who can't be bothered!

I'm all for disciplining bad behaviour, dont get me wrong. But I dont think you should 'sweat the small stuff.' I think this girl has been punished - she's grounded, she has no pocket money. I dont think this approach seems to be working. As for all the petty stuff, well, I'm not surprised she's thinking, sod it, i'm the bad one anyway.

At her very impressionable age, sometimes the harder we push, the further away they go. This is illustrated by her desperate to hang around with this 'bad' crowd, despite the way they treat her. She's desperate to fit in somewhere as it doesn't seem that she does fit in at home.

I think she needs to have a really good mother/daughter talking to,the slate wiped clean, and be brought back into the bosom of her family and an effort be made to include her. Of course, she needs clear boundires and punishments - all the minor stuff thou is just going to confuse the issues and make her think, well, in for a penny! I think we're in dangerous teenage runaway (which can lead to all sorts!) or dangerous cry for help territory here and i'd be very worried about that.

Uniscots97

RoxieW wrote: »

I'm all for disciplining bad behaviour, dont get me wrong. But I dont think you should 'sweat the small stuff.' I think this girl has been punished - she's grounded, she has no pocket money. I dont think this approach seems to be working. As for all the petty stuff, well, I'm not surprised she's thinking, sod it, i'm the bad one anyway.

At her very impressionable age, sometimes the harder we push, the further away they go. This is illustrated by her desperate to hang around with this 'bad' crowd, despite the way they treat her. She's desperate to fit in somewhere as it doesn't seem that she does fit in at home.

I think she needs to have a really good mother/daughter talking to,the slate wiped clean, and be brought back into the bosom of her family and an effort be made to include her. Of course, she needs clear boundires and punishments - all the minor stuff thou is just going to confuse the issues and make her think, well, in for a penny! I think we're in dangerous teenage runaway (which can lead to all sorts!) or dangerous cry for help territory here and i'd be very worried about that.

We've both tried the parent/child talk. We've wiped the slate clean many many times but still she breaks the rules.

I'll give you an example, last weekend I had convinced her Dad to give her another chance and said to her "Sunday, is your day what would you like to do"? She wanted to go to the new shopping centre, fair enough. So we went. We were having a good time and she thought this was brilliant going in all the clothes shops and laughing at the (what she thought was) the not so nice stuff), at the end I had promised her a burger (what she asked for). The place was mobbed and we couldn't get a table so ended up sat on one of the benches. She was sat next to her Dad. She started swinging her legs and was kicking my OH. He asked her nicely to stop kicking thinking she hadn't meant it. Her answer? "I didn't kick you, I'm not doing anything", and swung her legs and kicked him again very hard. The result, one angry Dad and youngest in tears getting told off..... and for what? She knew she was kicking him you could see it. Now we'd been having a nice day, her choice of what we were doing as a family and her choice of where we ate and yet she did this. Her brother made a comment about her not being happy unless she's the centre of attention either good or bad. Yet in this instance it was her day and she spoiled it!!!! There just doesn't seem to be any getting through to her.

RoxieW

It sounds to me like she thought she was getting 'jumped' on after perhaps kicking him accidently and lashed out. Its not the smartest move, but then she is still a child. She just sounds very defensive to me and I can see why.

I think the days out are great, but if she's getting told off for lots of small things at home she's still going to be defensive.

You're adamant that you're doing everything right. If thats the case then really I cant offer anymore advice then I have done already. But all i'd say is please try and look honestly at how she's received within the family - if its a case of 'blakc sheep' and everyone expecting her to mess up ( as some of your info has suggested)m then this needs addressing.

I stand by all I've said about her behaviour being pretty typical teenage stuff. You say that if she lies about the nutella what else is she lying about, but why assume the worst in her? As far as you're aware she's not doing drugs/having sex etc - dont punish her for things that she may not have done.

If she was my daughter I'd try lots of praise, include her and let the small stuff go - but still have clear boundries and punishments for anything major such as sneaking out at night etc. I'd also have the sex/drugs talk with her in a non accusing way and tell the rest of the family to keep out of it.

At the end of the day, you can only do your best to prevent her from going down a bad road - you cant lock her away and when teenagers are determined to do certain things, they will do them and to hell with the consequences.

All i can do is give you my advice as someone who remembers very clearly being a lonely teenager who didnt fit in with her family. please take my advice in the spirit it is intended - I'm trying to help you as i can perhaps see it from a slightly different perspective.

I think that with teenage girls the mother/daughter relationship is key. If she feels that she has you onside, it may make an enormous difference to her feelings and behaviour.

Best of luck.

Uniscots97

I really hope you're right but no matter how much praise she gets, days out, fun stuff she messes up yet again or ruins it for herself. I'm not her real Mum so can only pull on my perspective as what I was like at her age, I've even spoken to her about the time I had at high school and it wasn't easy but still she lets us and herself down. I'm always the first to stick up for her and try and talk to her calmly but even I'm starting to lose patience as this is making her Dad ill. When she stole cigarettes and was caught smoking she begged her Dad not to tell me as she didn't want me being disappointed in her. I'm fast running out of ideas how to deal with this. I guess the change of schools might be her only hope (none of her cousins attend the school she's going to). As for the consequences of teenage actions she's seen where it can lead but it's as though she doesn't think it'll happen to her.

seven-day-weekend

I'm with the OP on the Nutella thing. It's not a big thing in itself, but why is she lying about it? I too would be at my wit's end.

And as for kicking her dad, well what do you expect him to say -'oh carry on'?

I think the about the nutella etc, if those small but inexplicable things are brushed under the table, why should she expect the big things to be treeated any differently?


I personally would see if you could get her referred to a mentor, or child psychologist, or some other profesisonal. I know she's 14. (and believe me I remember what it's like to be a 14-year-old girl), but I think she may have problems beyond the normal teenage ones and perhaps it will help her to talk to a professional.

I think it's the small things she is doing and more importantly the lying about them, which are the worrying things here.

RoxieW

Where is her "real" mum? Is she not helping at all?

I think the fact that she cared about disappointing you is a really good sign that you're on the right track with her. All you can do is try and build on this. Please dont get harder on her and undo your good work. Her Dad needs to perhaps not make comments like he has done.

As I've said, it seems like minor stuff (give or take) - what normal teenager hasnt tried smoking, run up a huge phone bill etc? I'd be more worried if she was very studious and reclusive tbh!

Hopefully the change of school will do her good. Perhaps a club or something to focus on? What is she interested in? There must be something? If she wanted to go to the gym, maybe relent and try to find a trial and let her go by herself - afterall, it sounds to me like she wasnt too keen on going with this neighbour feeling 'babysat'. Give her a bit of trust and if she rewards it by going regularly then let her keep the membership, perhaps in exchange for a couple of extra chores? Or would she enjoy a drama club or swimming club - my local centre runs 'lifeguard' courses cheaply. Or the local 'rollerdisco' or whatever! Anything that will have her meeting like minded young people and widening her circle of friends.

Perhaps a massive incentive such as a trip to a summer camp where she'll make friends, if she behaves well at her new school?

It sounds like she enjoys spending time with you which is really great - all I can advice is to build on this. Perhaps i'm a soft touch, but I would just be very careful of giving her the feeling the 'everyone' is against her and really try to avoid this.

Uniscots97

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I'm with the OP on the Nutella thing. It's not a big thing in itself, but why is she lying about it? I too would be at my wit's end.

And as for kicking her dad, well what do you expect him to say -'oh carry on'?

I think the about the nutella etc), why should she behave any differently with the big ones?

To me the little things are really inexplicable.

I personally would see if U could get her referred to a mentor, or child psychologist. I know she's 14. (and believe me I remember what it's like to be a 14-year-old girl), but I think she may have problems beyond the normal teenage ones and perhaps it will help her to talk to a profesional.

I think it's the small things she is doing and more importantly the lying about them, which are the worrying things here.

Thanks, I hadn't thought about child psychologist. Would we be able to get a referral through our GP? we had hoped being friends with my colleagues daughter would help and initially it did but trying to get the poor girl into trouble was the final straw for their friendship. we're trying to instill in her that she needs to be careful how she speaks to people i.e. the tone she uses its not just words that people can find offensive. She wanted to get involved with a drama group which we encouraged and I gave up various weekends for her for (and really didn't mind), but even though she knew there might be a need for reshoots for certain things when it came to it she said she couldn't be bothered then moaned that her part was re-cast. As you can gather she was asked not to come back since she'd wasted time and money as the whole thing has to be reshot to replace her scenes.

Uniscots97

RoxieW wrote: »

Where is her "real" mum? Is she not helping at all?

I think the fact that she cared about disappointing you is a really good sign that you're on the right track with her. All you can do is try and build on this. Please dont get harder on her and undo your good work. Her Dad needs to perhaps not make comments like he has done.

As I've said, it seems like minor stuff (give or take) - what normal teenager hasnt tried smoking, run up a huge phone bill etc? I'd be more worried if she was very studious and reclusive tbh!

Hopefully the change of school will do her good. Perhaps a club or something to focus on? What is she interested in? There must be something? If she wanted to go to the gym, maybe relent and try to find a trial and let her go by herself - afterall, it sounds to me like she wasnt too keen on going with this neighbour feeling 'babysat'. Give her a bit of trust and if she rewards it by going regularly then let her keep the membership, perhaps in exchange for a couple of extra chores? Or would she enjoy a drama club or swimming club - my local centre runs 'lifeguard' courses cheaply. Or the local 'rollerdisco' or whatever! Anything that will have her meeting like minded young people and widening her circle of friends.

Perhaps a massive incentive such as a trip to a summer camp where she'll make friends, if she behaves well at her new school?

It sounds like she enjoys spending time with you which is really great - all I can advice is to build on this. Perhaps i'm a soft touch, but I would just be very careful of giving her the feeling the 'everyone' is against her and really try to avoid this.

She did want to go to the gym with the neighbour but didn't want to go to the gym with the free pass. In hindsight I think this is because the gym she wanted to go to is near the 'boyfriend's house.

As for her real Mum, long story. She doesn't want to know and hasn't at all for over ten years. They have no contact (at the Mother's request she didn't want them) and the kids don't want any pictures of her in the house.

As mentioned above we tried indulging her interests, the drama group. Even explaining to her there might be times where a reshoot might be required etc. She said she was fine with this and met a lot of nice people through this and had a blast but when she was called for a reshoot for an item she'd done late last year she told us she couldn't be bothered and so was asked not to come back therefore missing out on the nice friends she'd made. we tried explaining that even in her favourite tv shows the actors no matter their age can be called back to redo scenes.

Uniscots97

I have also offered (if she promises me that she'll behave), when she meets new friends from her new school I'll take them to the local under 18's nightclub (as long as her friends parents are ok with it) as long as I take them and pick them up and get to take them for burger or pizza afterwards (ok, sneaky on my part but I am trying with her)

seven-day-weekend

I think maybe a school mentor or counsellor would be better initially than a child psychologist, as the girl may see this as you saying she is 'crazy'.

It has to be someone she trusts and whose opinion she respects.

If there is no-one like this around already, perhaps a quiet word in the ears of the appropriate people at her new school?

Sorry I can't be more help, I'm out of my depth on this omne.

Hope it all works out OK.