Wife has walked out - what are my options.

margaretclare

Bossyboots wrote:

The thing is Aunty Margaret when you post on here it is hard to believe you are the age you state and therefore from that generation.

I feel quite sad that you were able to resist the indocrination of the day yet my OH's family weren't able to. His auntie's husband in in fact a lovely man who would nevere expect someone else to put jam on his bread. My FIL however was the epitomy of his generation and by the time he died we were barely speaking because I could not abide the way he treated my MIL and I used to get really cross with her for taking it. She had gone from being subservient to her father to being the same with her husband and then expecting me to be the same with her precious son. Not a hope! What I have found very interesting is that my OH and his cousins from this side of the family have all married independent people with strong personalities. Us four "incomers" are all very similar but with an independence not encouraged by our partners' birth family.

We seem to have hijacked the OP's thread a bit here but maybe some of our comments will help him.

Yes, I apologise for hijacking, but these ideas are very hard to kill off and they are still around! Men like Stuart, the OP, may have absorbed them subliminally (apologise if you haven't, Stu!) and Vermilion has very ably homed in on possible problems. I agree with Vermilion that there must, must, must have been warning signs ahead of Stu's wife's sudden departure, and in fact he said so, didn't he - she had been a bit snappy with him of late, a bit short-tempered, and thinking about that later, he wondered if it had been down to the menopause. The menopause is an event that gets blamed for a lot which cannot be laid at its door!

Bossyboots, maybe the way I grew up is some kind of explanation as to how I was able to resist that all-pervasive atmosphere in my young years. As I said, I didn't have the male provider coming in from work and expecting his tea on the table - my grandad was past work and he died when I wasn't even a teenager. I longed for a 'normal family' and especially brothers and sisters, especially not to be teased and bullied because, as Catherine Cookson writes so eloquently 'you've got no da'. But I grew up without him, and the only thing he's ever, ever done for me in my lifetime was that I put his name on my second marriage certificate in the space 'father's name'. so I did not have this huge respect for the male provider. I did try to go along with it to some extent - in the 1950s we were all desperate for the engagement ring and then the wedding ring...it was the be-all and end-all of everything. And living with in-laws in a tiny bungalow in 1957 because there was no hope of housing - I couldn't put up with it, I left! And that was absolutely unheard-of then. And continuing to pay full NI contributions when most other women did not - something for which I'm intensely grateful now because it means I get full pension in my own right.

There have always been women who were able to see a bit more clearly, look at the history of the Women's Movement back to the Suffragettes and beyond. But equally, for women of our generation and older, it was incredibly difficult to escape an unsuccessful marriage and especially once you had children. About 12 girls got married the year I did, of those 9 were pregnant at the altar. I know this because it was a rural area and I knew them all. I wasn't one of them! But in that situation, how would you escape, and what bargaining power had you to negotiate with a husband who just wanted it the way his Dad had had it all, tea on the table when he got in, the whole works, and as a young bride, MIL telling you how to do it, how she'd always done! I was lucky, I had 'O' levels (now GCSE) was able to get into a new career - nursing in September 1957.

I'm not helping much, I'm afraid. All I have learned over the years about marriage/partnership is that COMMUNICATION is so vital. Money, sex are important, but where problems arise with money, sex, family relationships, whatever, if you can't communicate with your closest partner then trouble will follow as dawn follows darkness. I agree with Vermilion - there have been warning signs and you've failed to see them. She was snappy - it wasn't the menopause.

I've recently jacked-in being a part-time volunteer trainee adviser with CAB due to disillusionment. The very last day I was there I came out and I snapped at my husband who was picking me up. And I thought 'This man has done nothing to deserve being snapped at - this activity is not worth risking my marriage for'. Now, he would never have said 'I don't want you going out doing things like CAB, I expect you at home waiting on me' (some guys would!) He would never even think that way. But my marriage is precious to me, it's one of the things that keeps me young, keeps me going, keeps me sane in an increasingly-insane world, and I would not put it at risk for anything.

Thank you, Bossyboots, for your kind words. Another reason could be slightly better education? I have a 2:1 Honours in Behavioural Sciences gained when I was in my mid-40s. It's got to be worth some kind of slightly-deeper thought processes, wouldn't you say?

Aunty Margaret

Bossyboots

I think you are right that growing up without a male role model has helped you step outside of the box so to speak. Your remark about the bungalow brought back memories of the stories I had been told during my childhood and even then I thought it strange that a married couple would want to live with their parents but obviously as a child I did not appreciate that there was no choice, at least initially.

You were lucky to get the opportunity to further your education in your 40's. My MIL would have been horrified at the thought of doing something for own achievement at that stage in her life which is really sad. She did however, with some encouragement, learn to drive when she was 55 which was another bone of contention between FIL and myself.

I meant to come back to the menopause issue earlier. It seems to be that if you are between certain ages, any problem you have is "that time of the month" and once you get past a certain age any problem you have is related to the menopause. I think it is far to say that most men take that attitude. What are the excuses post menopause?

It is of course also true that "time of the month" and menopause can cause added stress. I always knew when I was due because I would have a day during the month where I felt I could not cope with a single thing and I never thought I would get my housework done. Once I acknowledged the pattern I could cope with it. The same with the menopause which I have gone through comparatively early. As well as men blaming the menopause though, women can be guilty of the same. My colleague had a blood test to confirm she was entering the menopause and since then, everything she does is because she is "menopausal". I have asked my other colleagues if I was like that a couple of years ago and they say not. They would tell me the truth by the way it is that kind of office. We are expected to accept her bad behaviour because she has an excuse. We can hardly blame the men then when some women are using the menopause as a get out clause for whatever they choose (including in this case cheating on her husband with another colleague).

I hope the OP can take a careful look at what may indeed have some basis in the menopause but also whether that is just an easy crutch on which to lean to avoid facing other issues. Equally though I would like to think his wife could be honest about her problems and not use the same crutch herself.

capinpugwash

Thanks valiant23 for your perspective.

My early retirement has come up in one or two posts and I should clarify this as it may be a factor.

I worked as MD of a family business (not my own) and the owners decided to sell late last year.

I was no longer "required" and so as part of the finalisation an immediate vested pension was arranged.

I did not plan to stop working and the sudden change to my life was very dramatic and I got very little support from my OH.

I have supported my wifes passion for horses both financially and by maintaining all the paddocks, fencing and other jobs required on the 10 acres we have.

However, with a dramatic reduction in income it was necessary for my wife to earn some money to help pay for the horses, of which she has 3. The other option was to sell one or two but this was decided against by my OH.

I am trying to start my own little business, but this takes time to set up and I have felt I have been giving but not receiving support.

My wife worked like a trojan bringing up the children and I suspect as you do that her energies are now directed at her horses. I have no problem with this as an interest, but it has turned into an obsession to the exclusion of all and everything else.

Thanks again for your comments, I like to think I can take both positive and negative and distill the true position from them all.

The two of us have been through a period of tremendous change these last six months and it would appear the strain has got to both of us.

gabgab

capinpugwash,you make no mention of what your children's opinion is on the matter.As the situation has been building for some time your wife must have shared her feelings with at least one of them.
How is your relationship with the children at home.?
Please don't think that because they are adults that they are not suffering too.
One of the saddest answers I read on a job application form to the question, what is the worst thing that's ever happened to you in your life?the applicant replied.When my parents separated. She was age 19 when it happened!

EdInvestor

Hi Capn Pugwash

I think that the forum has homed in on the core problem, a conflict between my wifes interest in horses and the time spent with them, and the fact that with more time on my hands I feel more time should be spent with the family and myself.

Strangely enough, though you have more time on your hands, she has less on hers as you have made her go out to work.Yet you expect her to spend more time with you, at the expense of her main abiding interest - her horses.

... with a dramatic reduction in income it was necessary for my wife to earn some money to help pay for the horses, of which she has 3. The other option was to sell one or two but this was decided against by my OH.

The third option of course would have been to vest your second pension, which would mean she wouldn't have to go out to work.

Possibly you need to think again on that

.

Since you are now paid to do nothing, perhaps you could also take over some of the more straightforward household jobs ( or even pay for some help to come in), thus liberating more leisure time for her to spend with both the horses and the family?

The combination of these two changes might do the trick

Vermilion

Capinpugwash, I'm sorry, the more you write the more the problem is revealed. Please forgive me for my bluntness below, I do realise that reading this will seem like a personal attack, and will be very painful. But if you sincerely wish to save your marriage you will continue to read.

capinpugwash wrote:

Unfortunately my wife is the type of person who clams up rather than talks through problems, and there may well have been long term issues I am not aware of.

It is pointless arguing with someone who simply goes through the process of discussion without taking on board the points made. If that person is also arrogant enough to realise that they are intellectually superior and can score enough points to win any argument the exercise becomes an ego trip for one and a futile, painful chore for the other.

You have been married for 31 years but do not know your wife well enough to know if she is bottling up problems? Why is that?

capinpugwash wrote:

My wifes contribution to the marriage while the children were growing up and I was working is well understood and accepted.

The absence of the word "appreciated" speaks volumes here.

capinpugwash wrote:

I did not plan to stop working and the sudden change to my life was very dramatic and I got very little support from my OH.

The change was to both of your lives. What support did you offer your wife? If none, why expect any in return?

capinpugwash wrote:

However, with a dramatic reduction in income it was necessary for my wife to earn some money to help pay for the horses, of which she has 3. The other option was to sell one or two but this was decided against by my OH.

But it was you who chose to use financial change as a way of trying to control what you see as your wife's obsession? She chose between a rock and a hard place. You insisted she make that choice?

capinpugwash wrote:

I am trying to start my own little business, but this takes time to set up and I have felt I have been giving but not receiving support.

This is your enterprise. You have available time and funds: What support did you need from your wife, other than verbal encouragement perhaps?

To conclude.

Even in your discussions about divorce, you appear determined to deprive your wife of the horses, you talk of selling the yard to ensure you keep the house as a home for your 3 adult children?

capinpugwash. You must ask yourself a question. What happened to make your wife prefer the company of her horses to your company? And what on earth were you thinking of when you allowed that to happen? What, if anything, can you do to remedy that situation through love, understanding and compassion and not financial manipulation?

Finally, and most importantly, are you really able to accept and adjust? Or is your wife correct in her expectation that you are too selfish, I'm sorry my dear but that is the right word, to change?

If my words have cut you to the core, there is still hope for your marriage.

Ver

margaretclare

capinpugwash wrote:

I worked as MD of a family business (not my own) and the owners decided to sell late last year.

I was no longer "required" and so as part of the finalisation an immediate vested pension was arranged.

I did not plan to stop working and the sudden change to my life was very dramatic and I got very little support from my OH.

I have supported my wife's passion for horses both financially and by maintaining all the paddocks, fencing and other jobs required on the 10 acres we have.

However, with a dramatic reduction in income it was necessary for my wife to earn some money to help pay for the horses, of which she has 3. The other option was to sell one or two but this was decided against by my OH.

I am trying to start my own little business, but this takes time to set up and I have felt I have been giving but not receiving support.

My wife worked like a trojan bringing up the children and I suspect as you do that her energies are now directed at her horses. I have no problem with this as an interest, but it has turned into an obsession to the exclusion of all and everything else.

Thanks again for your comments, I like to think I can take both positive and negative and distill the true position from them all.

The two of us have been through a period of tremendous change these last six months and it would appear the strain has got to both of us.

Yes, but it isn't just in these last 6 months, is it? It looks to me as if you've been growing apart over a period of years. Which is not all that unusual. One partner, traditionally the husband, has an absorbing career which takes up much of his life, especially if travelling time and/or extra work done at/from home is taken into account. He uses home as a place of comfort, refreshment, reward even, for all the effort he's putting in outside of the home. (Bossyboots, I can feel my possible MSc research project falling into place!!!) OTOH wife is at home, nice home paid for by his efforts, children growing up (as my Jewish relatives say, children give you 'nachas' i.e. satisfaction, joy, reward). Both marriage partners are focusing on different things, although on the face of it they're united - happy marriage, lovely home, beautiful kids growing up to be a credit to you.

Then some unforeseen and stressful event occurs. I can understand, because my husband has told me what happened to him. He was MD of his own company, he set it up with a partner after the multi-company organisation they originally worked for went bust. His own company went down the tubes when its German parent company was taken over and decided to get rid of their UK subsidiary. He didn't get much support from his first wife either, in addition he was diagnosed with Type II diabetes during those years and that caused tremendous adjustment and coming to terms with. But over the years, the same had happened - they'd both been focusing on different things and were, essentially, different people.

Your wife may have picked on horses as a hobby (as you put it, obsession) because it drove her nuts having only the home and family as her main raison d'etre.

I had postnatal depression after my second baby, that was 1964, and I was told by a consultant psychiatrist that I was far too intelligent to be a stay-at-home wife - get back to my career!

I think I laid down the ground rules for my independence way back in the summer of 1957 when I left - it was virtually unheard-of for a young bride to walk out after literally weeks. And when we got back together a couple of years later I was half-way through my second year as a student nurse. Some people thought I would give it all up - no chance. The early months had been just too damned hard, I said I would carry on until I qualified, and I did. But others I knew did not - got pregnant, left, got married, and never went back to nursing. Even the ones who'd longed to nurse since they were kids playing with dolls - they ended up part-time in a chocolate factory if in fact they did anything outside the home.

Could the horses have been your wife's way of establishing her independence, saying 'this is for me, this is separate from the home and family'? You'd prefer her to spend more time with you and the family now you're retired - doesn't sound as if she wants to. She didn't want to sell any of her horses - perhaps they've become like 'people' to her, as dogs and cats do for many people.

Maybe she has been trying to communicate without words - some people do.

Just a few thoughts, maybe helpful, maybe not.

Aunty Margaret

elona

I think that you have hit the nail on the head again "Aunty Margaret" if I may call you that.

valiant23

uCapinPugwash

Credit must be given to you, as you seem to be taking a bit of a battering on here with good grace. I appreciate your honesty in your replies, which you give even if you know you'll be leaving yourself open to further scrutiny. Vermilion put it better than I could.

However, ask yourself this also. Do you really want your wife back? If so, why?

Is it because she is your wife, and should be with you?
Is it because you are still in love with her?
Is it because your pride (and possible standing in your community) has been hurt?
Is it because you want to make her happy?

It has occurred to me that it could be because you are starting a business, but...I'm not sure.

I've thought about your situation more this morning, and can only suggest the following options.

• Get her back, on your terms.
• Get her back on her terms. Find out what's wrong and do your damnedest to put it right. Tell her to put it in a letter if she feels she can't speak to you directly, as that will remove any confrontational aspects.
• Separate-acrimoniously and bitterly
• Separate-but on good terms. Making sure she knows you still love her but want whats best for her. Get on with your life doing what you want to, but making sure you OH knows you will be ready to be with her whenever she is ready.

It is important for you to look inside yourself and decide your feelings for your OH, as after 31 years I'm sure that on both parts there has been a lot of taking for granted, and I'm sure you've both evolved from when you first met. The question is, is it as a couple, or as 2 people who live together?

4 of my friends have separated in the past year or so, and what has amazed me is the physical changes in their appearance-they all look noticably younger (and not because of any mid-life crisis), it is like a weight has been lifted from their forehead, and instead of a frown they are more ready to smile.
The point is, despite the trauma of separation they came out the other side (seemingly) for the better.

bluep

CapinPugwash,
First of all - well done for posting on here and taking this discussion "on the head" so to speak - it takes bravery to discuss things like this with strangers but can be so helpful!

I think the core of the problem is WHY and that is something only your wife can answer. We can't presume its becuase she feels unappreciated, or trapped, or getting older, or menopausal because it could be so many different things or a combination of many.

With any relationship that has problems, talking about them is the key to tackling them as a couple and if your wife clams up or you don't understand the reasons for why she left, this seems the best place to start. I think LISTENING is the key here. I would talk to the children to see if she is talking to them and make it clear to them and to her (perhaps in a letter) that you are willing to do just that - to listen to her. Not to talk back or argue or even discuss, or try and make things better, just to start with, to LISTEN. I would not pressure her, just say that when she is ready to talk, you will be waiting to listen.

It seems that until she is able to express why, you will be unable to work out whether its something that you can improve/change/reassure and whether she actually wants you to do this at all.

Now, I don't know you but if this is a big turnaround in character and a big effort, it might just shock your children and your wife enough if this is ALL YOU SAY - you stop talking about divorce or trying to guess what's wrong and just say that you are waiting to listen when your wife decides she wants to tell you what it wrong. Even if she is set on seperation, it will be very difficult for you to get on with your life if you don't know her side of the story. Simply put, I believe this is the key to then being able to convince your wife that you proactively want to make things better.