Economy 10 & Smart Meters

Scot_39

Sorry - floating in and out of multiple threads - I sometimes forget the history.

Your right there was no need for me to guess it might be the 1422 given the picture earlier.

The twin element thing also came up in the Rosie1001 threads as well.

Yes that's the twin element in the series. 

The technical manual - definitely not the user manual - gives some details of the differences specific to the secondary measurement - and the information logged for it depending on mode - and I am sure that EDF not only could have - but should have been aware of those differences - and any impact for billing.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/pwxulcskoycq/1wwcrujxb6xTGfedBZ40kg/c8dcd3dbb1654a23c933d9bcf13fe5e1/Aclara-SMETS2-Single-Phase-Electric.pdf

But someone clearly chose that model - rather than say as others here have had fitted from the same series - like say the 1415/6 single element 5 port meters with onboard 100A switching and ALSC for standard E7 / E10 type applications.

Phones4Chris

PZ19 said:

Phones4Chris said:

PZ19 said:

9 days after my last post, and almost 2 months since the installation, EDF now telling me there are “system issues” when trying to bill the type of meter I got.  The meter I never asked for, the meter they wanted me to have by threatening to withdraw my tariff.. oh and I now have 4 meter readings.  You couldn’t make this up!

Make and Model number of meter would be helpful please.

I put the photo of it up on here back when it was installed (page 4 of thread) Alcara SGM 1422b

Sorry, missed it, thanks!

PZ19

Phones4Chris said:

PZ19 said:

Phones4Chris said:

PZ19 said:

9 days after my last post, and almost 2 months since the installation, EDF now telling me there are “system issues” when trying to bill the type of meter I got.  The meter I never asked for, the meter they wanted me to have by threatening to withdraw my tariff.. oh and I now have 4 meter readings.  You couldn’t make this up!

Make and Model number of meter would be helpful please.

I put the photo of it up on here back when it was installed (page 4 of thread) Alcara SGM 1422b

Sorry, missed it, thanks!

No problem.  It is switching over to the so called cheaper times as the water is being heated.  I don’t think it’s switching at the right times however, for example the water is being heated at 8am.  It started out as giving me a TOU Rate 1 and TOU Rate 2.  Since I have asked EDF what is going on, it now also gives a Second TOU Rate 1 and a Second TOU Rate 2.  So have 4 readings!  They also have now got the peak rate tariff price showing there.

at the minute it is making no difference to the total cost of electricity I am using as if they bill me at the standard variable rate for everything it is working out almost exactly the same as the E10/7 split rates.  I keep a daily check and being a numbers geek have spreadsheet calculating the cost.  

Only issue is I can’t send them readings in the app to have an up to date bill..

PZ19

Latest on this, almost 3 months since installation.. still in dumb mode, still producing 4 readings, now with complaints dept and meter team.  EDF have admitted they can’t handle complex meters, despite them telling us we had to come off our old meters.  Interesting as well they told me that my off peak hours are 0000-0200, 0700-1000, 1600-1700, 2100-2300.  So 8 hours instead of the old 10, and at hours I wouldn’t class as off peak..  not entirely sure that will provide enough heat in the storage heaters…. It’s an an absolute shambles this.

Scot_39

Ironically they would likely have been handling 10,000s if not 100,000s of complex meters in the past.

Sounds as if they are treating you as having two two rate meters - and I guess applying same rates to both element readings.

Which defeats tge purpose of twin element meters to allow seperate billing rates and timings / for normal live 24/7 and alcs control restricted outputs.

Strikes me this whole twin element meter farce - a completely avoidable one with a bit of preperation or though - is a classic example of large organisational incompetence - a lack of system wide planning for a material change - a left hand not knowing what right hand doing - or at least what it means for their part - scenario.

And then theirs the more fundamental issues -  of it seems potentially many rts replacement journeys - like the Rosie1001 thread style - to try and secure a decent operational replacement.

All sad failures not only by companies - and I suspect its not just EDF - due to a weak, failing regulator who seems to care far too little about the millions of all electric home consumers at times.

One the suppliers and arguably even the regulator should pay for (rather than the boss getting a 5 yr contract extension) - through reputation damage by media exposure - and by regulator sanction- by getting it escalated either by Ombusdman or MPs on your behalf with DESNZ and Ofgem etc.

Maybe if enough complained, even tge likes of CA or media stars like ML might take an interest.

After all just c30,000 - a tiny minority of consumers but for them a large public response -  saw Ofgem  continue to spend effort on zero SC tariffs - despite their clearly negative analysis / reports.

That would be say just c3% of tge 1m plus rts homes in this last push - and its not too difficult to imagine more than that would be disappointed / angry  about their new metering and new tariffs / costs - or the disruption even if get somewhere decent - months in Rosie1001 scenarion - in the end.

And many done this spring and summer may not even realise what their new heating costs all in will be. Like those who might now be paying peak rates like e7 day  rather than standard rates on normal use and supplemental heating.

When I lost rts c decade ago my rates on both meters went up - the total cost projected by EOn just ovef a quarter - c27% irc - my neighbour with heavier use nearer 40%.

Phones4Chris

PZ19 said:

Latest on this, almost 3 months since installation.. still in dumb mode, still producing 4 readings, now with complaints dept and meter team.  EDF have admitted they can’t handle complex meters, despite them telling us we had to come off our old meters.  Interesting as well they told me that my off peak hours are 0000-0200, 0700-1000, 1600-1700, 2100-2300.  So 8 hours instead of the old 10, and at hours I wouldn’t class as off peak..  not entirely sure that will provide enough heat in the storage heaters…. It’s an an absolute shambles this.

What region are you in? Do you know how to check with your DNO that your new Smart Meter is correctly registered on the National Database?
EDF have been know to fail to do this correctly and  that could be at the bottom of this problem, as that database seems to get referred to by them, and their own records are a mess.
If they seem to think you still have complex meters this could well be the case, and maybe telling them you do NOT have old style Complex Meters any more but you have a Smart meter, send them a picture of it with the serial number nice and clear so they have no excuse for not knowing.

PZ19

Phones4Chris said:

PZ19 said:

Latest on this, almost 3 months since installation.. still in dumb mode, still producing 4 readings, now with complaints dept and meter team.  EDF have admitted they can’t handle complex meters, despite them telling us we had to come off our old meters.  Interesting as well they told me that my off peak hours are 0000-0200, 0700-1000, 1600-1700, 2100-2300.  So 8 hours instead of the old 10, and at hours I wouldn’t class as off peak..  not entirely sure that will provide enough heat in the storage heaters…. It’s an an absolute shambles this.

What region are you in? Do you know how to check with your DNO that your new Smart Meter is correctly registered on the National Database?
EDF have been know to fail to do this correctly and  that could be at the bottom of this problem, as that database seems to get referred to by them, and their own records are a mess.
If they seem to think you still have complex meters this could well be the case, and maybe telling them you do NOT have old style Complex Meters any more but you have a Smart meter, send them a picture of it with the serial number nice and clear so they have no excuse for not knowing.

Yeah they have had all the pictures Chris.. the initial excuse at the start of this was they need to register the meter.  I’m not entirely sure why I have gone from initial 2 readings to now 4 but there you are.  At the moment billing wise it makes no difference to me if they just charge me teh SVR or the E7/8 prices.  Once the storage heaters go on next month then it will be an issue.  It’s insane how difficult they make it.  Calculating a bill can be done in seconds, not sure why I haven’t had one now for 3 months.  Luckily I keep daily readings and know exactly what it all,costs

am in region 10, but don’t know MPAN of this meter as had no bill and got no IHD.  I do know the MPans of the 2 old meters..

Phones4Chris

Hi again. Region 10 is East England and the DNO is UK Power Networks.
They have a Freephone General Enquiry Number 0800-029-4285 and for Emergencies (all networks) 105 (free).
Their webpage for finding Supplier and MPAN is https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/who-is-my-electricity-supplier-and-what-is-my-mpan
The easiest way to check your details (as with most DNOs) is to use the webpage and enter your address in the required place as well as an email address, you'll normally get the results within a few minutes.
Obviously knowing your old MPANs, you'll know if the National Database has been updated! Generally you retain one of the original MPANs, the other should become "defunct" and no longer be "linked" as this can also create problems if you try to move supplier.
If your search still returns both MPANs, it may be an idea to ring the DNO to see when it was last updated and if the 2nd MPAN is still linked. The details should have the make/model and serial number of your new meter as well.
I see no reasons why your new meter should need 2 MPANs (for import) but can't be absolutely certain and would be interested in the DNOs explanation if it did.
Edit: You could also try this using your address - https://homebrew.n3rgy.com

PZ19

Phones4Chris said:

Hi again. Region 10 is East England and the DNO is UK Power Networks.
They have a Freephone General Enquiry Number 0800-029-4285 and for Emergencies (all networks) 105 (free).
Their webpage for finding Supplier and MPAN is https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/who-is-my-electricity-supplier-and-what-is-my-mpan
The easiest way to check your details (as with most DNOs) is to use the webpage and enter your address in the required place as well as an email address, you'll normally get the results within a few minutes.
Obviously knowing your old MPANs, you'll know if the National Database has been updated! Generally you retain one of the original MPANs, the other should become "defunct" and no longer be "linked" as this can also create problems if you try to move supplier.
If your search still returns both MPANs, it may be an idea to ring the DNO to see when it was last updated and if the 2nd MPAN is still linked. The details should have the make/model and serial number of your new meter as well.
I see no reasons why your new meter should need 2 MPANs (for import) but can't be absolutely certain and would be interested in the DNOs explanation if it did.
Edit: You could also try this using your address - https://homebrew.n3rgy.com

Helpful that, cheers.  Both the old MPANs are still on there..

Scot_39

PZ19 said:

Phones4Chris said:

Hi again. Region 10 is East England and the DNO is UK Power Networks.
They have a Freephone General Enquiry Number 0800-029-4285 and for Emergencies (all networks) 105 (free).
Their webpage for finding Supplier and MPAN is https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/who-is-my-electricity-supplier-and-what-is-my-mpan
The easiest way to check your details (as with most DNOs) is to use the webpage and enter your address in the required place as well as an email address, you'll normally get the results within a few minutes.
Obviously knowing your old MPANs, you'll know if the National Database has been updated! Generally you retain one of the original MPANs, the other should become "defunct" and no longer be "linked" as this can also create problems if you try to move supplier.
If your search still returns both MPANs, it may be an idea to ring the DNO to see when it was last updated and if the 2nd MPAN is still linked. The details should have the make/model and serial number of your new meter as well.
I see no reasons why your new meter should need 2 MPANs (for import) but can't be absolutely certain and would be interested in the DNOs explanation if it did.
Edit: You could also try this using your address - https://homebrew.n3rgy.com

Helpful that, cheers.  Both the old MPANs are still on there..

Sounds like another feature of EDF's meter swap - as getting rid of the second was the problem that stopped Rosie1001 making her exit to Octopus for a couple of weeks.

In her case months after her smart upgrade in Mar - and despite  promises all details were upto date and that they had made the correct requests etc etc.