Economy 10 & Smart Meters

Ildhund

PZ19 said:

EDF told me it should be 2100-2300.  

I think that E10 in the UKPN area 10 generally has offpeak power 01:00-06:00, 14:00-17:00 and 21:00-23:00 during BST. These times will all be delayed by up to 10 minutes (your meter's unique randomized offset), so you wouldn't see offpeak at midnight or 01:00. When you do spot a change of tariff, make a note of how many minutes it is after the nominal time. This delay will apply to ALCS switching times as well as tariff timings, so it's worth knowing when it's 'safe' to switch on the cooker or to have an electric shower, for example.   

Scot_39

There is of course the Rosie1001 scenario - where EDF have sent mismatched tariff tables and ALCS calander data to the meter.

The Aclara also has the contactor status on the display (for the main 24.7 - for the main auxiliary on board - contactor 2 symbol - and auxiliary 2A iirc in the case of e.g the 1416-b the LC1 symbol).

The manual says unlike the EDMI discussions in the Rosie1001 threads - the symbol doesn't come and go - only the actual line between the little o's is animated 

- open not connected its diagonal up left to right  

- closed - connected / power applied - horizontal line connecting the os.

Easy to miss unless looking for it I guess.

So it might mean the OP has to look at not just the current rate in p/kWh - but the contactor status on contactor 2 to determine the actual ALCS times - at the very bottom RHS of the display.

Does the 9am reference mean the HW was still on 9AM - on E7 that would mean a start at 2am.   (So 1-8AM GMT - which isn't that standard - but iirc was in at least some regional DNO window limits)

Phones4Chris

@Scot_39 Let's try and not have too many over complex posts. One simple way of noting if the ALCS is active is by seeing if the off-peak hot water heating or a storage heater is active as hopefully one (or more) outlet may have a neon indicator, and bear in mind the meter manual is an older 2019 publication which hasn't been updated with some of the minor display changes on the meters which you may recall from previous discussions of the 1416-B.

Phones4Chris

@Ildhund see this post for what EDF claimed to be the off-peak times. We'll obviously have to wait and see!
@PZ19 Out of curiosity, what were your off-peak times before the meter change? (This may have no further relevance as it'll depend on what tariff you end up with!).
Can you also tell us a little bit more about your heating installation. Obviously you have storage heaters. You've mentioned about switching one on for a trial - what is it's kWh rating?
With the water heating, is it heated solely off-peak or do you have a boost (separately switched I assume) on the 24/7 circuit. It that normally left off and only switched on when needed, or on all the time?

Phones4Chris

@PZ19 From what you've previously said, you've obviously been reading the registers. Now this can get quite complicated with the two buttons A & B on the meter, but ignore B for now.
As you repeat press button A, it will cycle through the various registers. We don't know the precise order or exactly which ones on the 1422-B so it would be very helpful if you could tell us what your are getting as you cycle through button A. It does not really matter where you start with the "cycle" as long as you go right through and back to where you started.
Please give the full name as displayed eg. where part may say TOU Rate 2 does it say Secondary TOU Rate 2 (or something similar)? Ignore any symbols about Active/Reactive etc, not really relevant to what we need to know. You could give us the actual Meter readings on each as you go as well. Note - any that are "Export" should all be 0 (unless you have solar panels or a wind turbine you haven't mentioned - haha).
Forgot to ask in the previous post, does the off-peak water or any storage heater switches have a neon indicator?

Scot_39

Phones4Chris said:

@Scot_39 Let's try and not have too many over complex posts. One simple way of noting if the ALCS is active is by seeing if the off-peak hot water heating or a storage heater is active as hopefully one (or more) outlet may have a neon indicator, and bear in mind the meter manual is an older 2019 publication which hasn't been updated with some of the minor display changes on the meters which you may recall from previous discussions of the 1416-B.

Just the OP says he's going to the meter to check the actual tariff rate display - the 14p at the meter - so just thought as easy to check the contactor status - whatever it is - it is likely to be dynamic - a change of some sort.

Or their would be no point in having it on the display itself.

We have suggested the red led numorous times - and the reply often comes back none fitted - so stopped doing so.

Phones4Chris

@Scot_39 Well not every installation is the same - is it, so it's sensible to ask!

PZ19

Morning all, so major issue.  Had one storage heater on all night as a test.  Just been to check it and it’s cold.  The meter readings haven’t changed which they clearly should have done.  I didn’t have water on so any movement on the off peak would been storage heater only.  I’ve just flicked the water on now and that is now being heated.  It was my understanding that the water and heat are on the same circuit but appears  not to be the case.

at the minute the Active Tariff Price - 1 is showing 14.7p, the off peak rate.  I woke up at 2.45 and quickly flicked the water on for a second and light came on, so it does appear To be on 2am to 9am as Scot_39 suggested.  

Edit 0847hrs.  The water has gone off at 0845 and switched back now to peak rate tariff on the meter

between 1835 last night and 0750 this morning the TOU Rate 1 has gone up 1kw, as has the TOU Rate 2, which I am assuming is the peak rate but don’t understand why 2 readings. Maybe one reading 9am to 2 am peak and one 2am to 9am off peak, like my old day and night reading on one of the old meters.  The off peak rates haven’t moved at all, and like I say they should have as I had Storage heater on, but no heat to heater.

attached is picture of just one screen at 0750

PZ19

In answer to Phones for Chris when pressing button A, I get the following

Total Act Imp kWh (1 + 2) Reading 424
Total Act Exp kWh (1 + 2) Reading 0
TOU Rate 1 Reading 241
TOU Rate 2 Reading 30
Second TOU Rate 1 Reading 29
Second TOU Rate 2 Reading 122 (this has ticked up 1 kWh in last half hour due to me now flicking water on)
Active Tariff Price - 1 14.700p per kWh (off peak rate). Update At 0847 switched to 32.140p per kWh at 0845.
Active Tariff Price - 2 0.000p per kWh
Meter Balance £28.24 ( no idea what that is)
Supplier Message which is blank


Meter was installed June 23rd.  The Second TOU Rate 1 only appeared on July 26th, and TOU Rate 2 only appeared on August 8th.  Prior to that only had 2 readings..

My understanding was that the water and heat are on a separate circuit which used to go into my heat meter (in the good old days and was charged at the then E10 cheaper rates.  The E10 times were 0100-0700, 1400-1630, 2200-2330.  I then had an E7 meter aswell which had a Day rate (0730-0230) and Night rate (0230-0730).  So I used to have 3 readings in total.

I do have a separate switch to heat the water at any time at peak rates, if I need it, which i sometime use as it’s cheaper (depending on tariff at the time) to do that than heat the whole tank for the amount of water I use, but it is not on all the time, definitely not.

QrizB

PZ19 said:

Morning all, so major issue.  Had one storage heater on all night as a test.  Just been to check it and it’s cold.  ...  It was my understanding that the water and heat are on the same circuit but appears  not to be the case.

Can you share a photo (or several photos, if necessary) that shows how the tails from your meter connect to your consumer unit(s), and also photo(s) showing the circuits that each consumer unit feeds?