Economy 10 & Smart Meters

distefano

I have an all electric house with 2 meters. The underfloor heating [acting as a storage heater] & hot water are heated from an Off Peak meter with 7 hours at night & 3 hours pm boost.

EDF have just informed me they are replacing my 2 meters with a smart meter.

I have no idea what this means for me

I presume it means I have only standard rate electricity and no off peak electricity?

I hope there is some way to reset the time of heating as it is currently controlled from the meter. The last thing I want is 10 hours of full rate electricity heating the floor overnight; I would presumably be better off with a few hours in the evening.

I'd be grateful for any advice on how smart meters affect people who have had 2 meters operating  Economy 10 [or 7] with storage heaters.

QrizB

Rosie 1001 had her legacy meter replaced with a smart meter recently. It wasn't exactly trouble-free but she did get it configured for E10 and it does switch her storage heaters on and off with the E10 cheap rate times.

That was with EDF.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6593413/smart-meter-for-storage-heaters/p1

Mark_d

Smart Meters have the ability to switch loads, so you should be able to work something out with EDF

PZ19

Got the same letter today from EDF saying they stopping E10.. 3 options, smart meter, shop around, do nothing.  That’s very helpful when I have 2 MPANs and separate curcuit for water and storage heaters .  Nice of them to give me a bit of notice😀. Their answer when speaking to them is to put everyone onto E7, so you lose the 3 hour extra boost, which means it may not be enough to heat storage heaters in winter, and claim it’s an industry wide thing, rather than take responsibility for people (especially older in flats) going cold in winter…

Scot_39

Are they stopping E10 tariff or just RTS and other complex - in Ofgem speak - restricted meter infrastructure (RMI) meters with E10 ?

Others like Ovo have according to their forum been replacing RTS E10 and RTS THTC with E10 smart meters.

As any smart meter with alcs (preferably on board so 5 port for neatness) is capable of not only the tariff but the load switching to control heating / Hw etc.

Just as it would be for E7 setup needing both tariff and load control.

And if they are - well if (when based on a past customers posts here) EOn Next do that to me - I'd get your new shiny smart meter and if in a reliable signal area jump to a better deal - like say snug octopus which at least gives 6 hours overnight and 1 hour boost in afternoon - maybe enough for many.

It may even be a good idea even if get e10 - but need another heavy demand like say a future EV charged at their 9p rate overnight.

PZ19

Scot_39 said:

Are they stopping E10 tariff or just RTS and other complex - in Ofgem speak - restricted meter infrastructure (RMI) meters with E10 ?

Others like Ovo have according to their forum been replacing RTS E10 and RTS THTC with E10 smart meters.

As any smart meter with alcs (preferably on board so 5 port for neatness) is capable of not only the tariff but the load switching to control heating / Hw etc.

Just as it would be for E7 setup needing both tariff and load control.

And if they are - well if (when based on a past customers posts here) EOn Next do that to me - I'd get your new shiny smart meter and if in a reliable signal area jump to a better deal - like say snug octopus which at least gives 6 hours overnight and 1 hour boost in afternoon - maybe enough for many.

It may even be a good idea even if get e10 - but need another heavy demand like say a future EV charged at their 9p rate overnight.

The letter I got said they’re simplifying their tariffs by retiring older ones.  In order to take advantage of today’s smarter tariffs, you’ll need a smart meter.  From July 1st you will pay one standard rate.  3 options, smart meter, leave, do nothing.

when I called them they can fit smart meter and stick on an E7 tariff for 7 hours cheap electric.  For me that may be enough in the winter, for older people it won’t be. Currently I have 2 MPANs one that is an E7 meter and the other the separate circuit for storage heat and water.  I’m assuming that they wire the water/heat onto the economy 7 times.

QrizB

PZ19 said:

The letter I got said they’re simplifying their tariffs by retiring older ones.  In order to take advantage of today’s smarter tariffs, you’ll need a smart meter.  From July 1st you will pay one standard rate.  3 options, smart meter, leave, do nothing.

That certainly explains how EDF are dealing with Ofgem's mandate.

Move to a smart meter, be charged the SVT, or leave.

PZ19 said:

when I called them they can fit smart meter and stick on an E7 tariff for 7 hours cheap electric.  For me that may be enough in the winter, for older people it won’t be. Currently I have 2 MPANs one that is an E7 meter and the other the separate circuit for storage heat and water.  I’m assuming that they wire the water/heat onto the economy 7 times.

Thats how E7 is meant to work; an overnight period with a cheap rate for stored heat (& everything else), then a higher daytime rate for the non-heat circuits.

PZ19

QrizB said:

PZ19 said:

The letter I got said they’re simplifying their tariffs by retiring older ones.  In order to take advantage of today’s smarter tariffs, you’ll need a smart meter.  From July 1st you will pay one standard rate.  3 options, smart meter, leave, do nothing.

That certainly explains how EDF are dealing with Ofgem's mandate.

Move to a smart meter, be charged the SVT, or leave.

PZ19 said:

when I called them they can fit smart meter and stick on an E7 tariff for 7 hours cheap electric.  For me that may be enough in the winter, for older people it won’t be. Currently I have 2 MPANs one that is an E7 meter and the other the separate circuit for storage heat and water.  I’m assuming that they wire the water/heat onto the economy 7 times.

Thats how E7 is meant to work; an overnight period with a cheap rate for stored heat (& everything else), then a higher daytime rate for the non-heat circuits.

I know how E7 works, my point is having been on E10 we’re losing 3 hours of cheaper electric for storage heaters and water.  Only will see in winter the effect of that.  When the meter is installed I want the ability to still get E10 if any other supplier will provide it, although the EDF guy told me it’s an industry wide mandate to get rid of E10.  Whether that’s true or night I don’t know. 

QrizB

PZ19 said:

... the EDF guy told me it’s an industry wide mandate to get rid of E10.  Whether that’s true or night I don’t know. 

The mandate is to get rid of legacy meters. EDF can offer whatever smart meter tariffs they choose; that's a business decision for them, there's no "industry wide mandate".

You can get E10 on a smart meter from EDF and from OVO (and possibly others). You can get "Smart E9" from OVO. There are a wide range of other smart split-rate tariffs available from a number of suppliers.

Scot_39

PZ19 said:

Scot_39 said:

Are they stopping E10 tariff or just RTS and other complex - in Ofgem speak - restricted meter infrastructure (RMI) meters with E10 ?

Others like Ovo have according to their forum been replacing RTS E10 and RTS THTC with E10 smart meters.

As any smart meter with alcs (preferably on board so 5 port for neatness) is capable of not only the tariff but the load switching to control heating / Hw etc.

Just as it would be for E7 setup needing both tariff and load control.

And if they are - well if (when based on a past customers posts here) EOn Next do that to me - I'd get your new shiny smart meter and if in a reliable signal area jump to a better deal - like say snug octopus which at least gives 6 hours overnight and 1 hour boost in afternoon - maybe enough for many.

It may even be a good idea even if get e10 - but need another heavy demand like say a future EV charged at their 9p rate overnight.

The letter I got said they’re simplifying their tariffs by retiring older ones.  In order to take advantage of today’s smarter tariffs, you’ll need a smart meter.  From July 1st you will pay one standard rate.  3 options, smart meter, leave, do nothing.

when I called them they can fit smart meter and stick on an E7 tariff for 7 hours cheap electric.  For me that may be enough in the winter, for older people it won’t be. Currently I have 2 MPANs one that is an E7 meter and the other the separate circuit for storage heat and water.  I’m assuming that they wire the water/heat onto the economy 7 times.

Re simplification (*)- possibly bad news for those on E10 and other legacy like E2020 (10 hrs overnight plus all weekend off peak iirc).

re wiring - Yes  new meter will drive a 24.7 output and a time restricted circuit - as long as it has ALCS - you'll be fine (and that regardless of what someone in CS says - who often wont understand meter wiring at all - the meter fitter should be fitting)

(*) When I lost my RTS - maybe now 10 years ago judging by the age of my smart meter - my second non rts set-up - it was driven by EOn doing what they nicely termed a "tariff simplification" process.

At the time the meter fitter told me that E10 was only being offered to legacy customers on similar old tariffs to mine - so it's not without precedent.

As above - suspect their is a difference between getting rid of legacy metering to go smart - for RTS definitely - with upcoming half hourly settlement - initially not - but in future ? - and moves like this - that getting rid of tariffs that suit certain types of heating better than others is bad news.

But be careful of what a normal customer service rep - might say - as opposed to what actually is driving things.

Many old legacy meter codes - flag up as RTS at some suppliers - when they are not RTS for instance.

Until recently I thought it was likely I'd end up with E7 - but I am hoping Octopus persevere with Snug - designed to use new tech to drive old meter dependent heaters like mine.   And even better to do so cheaply vs even their E7.

E7 by the way in many modern homes - is just a pure time of use tariff - it can apply without the restricted circuits -  its the meter load control (ALCS) function and second live output that separates it for people like us with a restricted circuit need.