The big fat Electric Vehicle bashing thread.

Grumpy_chap

[Deleted User] said:

Dacia Spring 1 stars
Renault Zoe - 0 starts
MG5 - not even submitted for testing

I am absolutely shocked that any new car can be released to market without being submitted for, and achieving a minimum outcome, in NCAP as part of the Type Approval / CE marking process.

One of my biggest concerns about the 1997 Fiesta and 2007 Focus is the what would happen if the worst happened?  I have considered the MG5 as a future prospect.  The TM3 is only £25k more and that is a small price to pay for my life or to avoid life-changing injury (which could be worse than death).

Herzlos

dipsomaniac said:

Curious to know what safety kit is on a new ev compared to a 20 yr old focus

A 20 year old Focus night have ABS and a driver's airbag, but I think that's it. 

[Deleted User]

Grumpy_chap said:

Deleted_User said:

Dacia Spring 1 stars
Renault Zoe - 0 starts
MG5 - not even submitted for testing

I am absolutely shocked that any new car can be released to market without being submitted for, and achieving a minimum outcome, in NCAP as part of the Type Approval / CE marking process.

One of my biggest concerns about the 1997 Fiesta and 2007 Focus is the what would happen if the worst happened?  I have considered the MG5 as a future prospect.  The TM3 is only £25k more and that is a small price to pay for my life or to avoid life-changing injury (which could be worse than death).

A number of new cars aren't submitted or chosen by NCAP for testing, however these tend to be less popular cars or prestige marques, you won't see Bentley and Aston Martin in the NCAP ratings for example.

The MG5 was clearly not going to get many stars from the standard model as it was missing all of the new 2019 NCAP criteria driver aids - so maybe 1 or 2 stars at best, but even the long range with some added features has not been submitted to NCAP either.

The MG5 didn't meet some type-approval standards - the integrated roof bars cannot actually be used because they don't meet the load bearing requirements - they are simply decorative! It didn't even meet type approval for a tow bar so you can't fit even a bike carrier let alone pull a trailer / caravan which is pretty useless for an "estate car". Even worse the marketing bumf showed both of these in use.

Other safety clangers include brake lights not activating when regeneratively braking.

Despite all the space saved by not having an ICE, the MG5 doesn't have a spare wheel, not even a space saver.

And no tinted windows, no UV or IR protection in the glass, let alone privacy glass for the rear which is important for an estate car.

The MG5 is based on the Roewe i5 from 2017 which was a pretty dull and dated looking car to start with and it hasn't been updated much which also rings alarm bells around safety and quality. It really makes me suspicious of the corners that have been cut to deliver what looks like a great price.

If you are only concerned with the price of fuel and don't actually want a car that is safe, practical or comfortable then the MG5 is ideal.

Herzlos

The MG5 has type approval for the roof bars now; at least one of the trim models comes with them and has a weight capacity. I think it's 50kg which is pretty average.

It was a pretty stupid idea fitting them with a 0kg limit as someone will fall foul of it at some point.

Herzlos

Lots of ICE cars are going to struggle to get a good rating on the new NCAP, since it relies on a lot of driver aids many will find annoying - seatbelt warnings, driver attention warnings, lane departure prevention, forward collision detection and so on. 

Stuff that should make an accident less likely but won't make the car any safer if one happens, and results in a lot of warning beeps.

sheramber

90% of the houses currently being built in my town are blocks of flats or terraces with no drives, just a small front garden with a strip of grass and a hedge then pavement.. Cars are parked on the main road in front of them.

Semi detached  do not exist and detached are very few.

[Deleted User]

Herzlos said:

Lots of ICE cars are going to struggle to get a good rating on the new NCAP, since it relies on a lot of driver aids many will find annoying - seatbelt warnings, driver attention warnings, lane departure prevention, forward collision detection and so on. 

Stuff that should make an accident less likely but won't make the car any safer if one happens, and results in a lot of warning beeps.

Lots of ICE and EV cars are getting 5 star ratings on the new standard. A popular example is the new VW Polo, it got 5 stars a couple of months ago and that is a small budget ICE car.

Sounds like you are stuck in the dark ages if you are thinking like that about driver aids - avoiding an accident is preferable to surviving one.

My 8 year old ICE has all of those features you mentioned and more and it doesn't result in any annoying warning bleeps at all when driven normally. Of course leaving my seatbelt off will give an annoying beep but who in their right mind drives without one?

For example some systems provide a vibration through the steering wheel (lane departure), a warning light on my door mirror (blind spot indicator). I've yet to have a forward collision alert but it will alert me audibly and pre-charge the brakes. And of course the driver attention warning does beep if I don't acknowledge it but that is the whole point and again I've never been alerted.

Active cruise control and speed limiter for times when eyes on the road are more important than the speedo, automatic wipers, headlights / main beam / dipping mirror etc all mean one less thing to control and more attention to the road and driving.

And I can switch all of those driver aids off if I don't think they are keeping me safe, but I don't.

As I said, most EV's have them, but there are a bunch of budget EV's (and ICE's) that seemed to have skipped them altogether to trade off price for safety.

Ibrahim5

Quite shocking the dangers of electric cars.

Herzlos

My 8 year old ICE had none of that stuff, and not all new ICE cars do either. That some do, like my 1 year old ICE, doesn't invalidate my point.

The new Polo starts at £19k so I think calling it a budget car is a stretch.

I definitely agree that avoiding an accident is best, and that most drivers could benefit from more active safety controls because most drivers are much worse than they think.

That doesn't mean I don't find some of the features annoying. 

Martyn1981

Deleted_User said:

Martyn1981 said:

Of note, as I don't think we've mentioned this, EV's seem to do well, if not better for safety. Having the ability to crumple most of the front, because there isn't a large metal engine helps. There was an insurance report a year or two ago and its results were fascinating, even when they compared ICE derived BEVs to the original ICE vehicle, the BEV came out better for injuries.

So most EV's are 4 or 5 stars rating wise, that's not an issue, but I just wanted to highlight that a number of cars that have been repeatedly mentioned as a price related counterpoint to objections to EV's in this thread have a poor safety rating and buyers should be aware of that.

Crumple zones aren't such a big factor in NCAP rating as they used to be. It was a big deal when NCAP first launched, then it moved to other devices that limit injuries such as seats, seat belts, interior design and airbag technologies.

NCAP massively influenced car manufacturers when it was first introduced, ABS and airbags became standard rather than optional, then ESC, EBA became standard and so on.

Now it is about avoiding an accident in the first place which is exactly where we should be at - much better to prevent a crash in the first place and we are getting closer to that with self driving technologies.

Those cheap EV's I mentioned are missing many driving assist technologies because they have been built to a price to make EV's look affordable.

My 8 year old ICE has most of the new NCAP safety assistance devices fitted as an optional extra so they really should be standard now - some people cite these as new fangled things recently introduced to NCAP that have squashed the rating of otherwise safe cars.

Good points, the cheaper end vehicles won't perform as well as the others. But just to repeat as you mentioned your 8 year old car, the Renault Zoe scored 5 stars (rated in 2013), that rating only changed in 2021 with the updated model. So goes to show the changes in safety scoring, which is great news.

I'm just a bit concerned that some will think BEV's aren't as safe as ICEV's (insurance results seem to show the opposite) if like for like comparisons aren't made.

Apologies, this isn't the report I mentioned before, how BEV's based on an ICE vehicle are safer than the ICE (in terms of accidents and injuries), but it is one on safety ratings in the US. It points out that among smaller vehicles (small for the US!) the Volt and Leaf do well.

Electric & Hybrid Cars Have Better IIHS Safety Ratings Than Gasmobiles