The big fat Electric Vehicle bashing thread.

Petriix

Johnmcl7 said:

Herzlos said:

Deleted_User said:

 Who would buy an ICE estate that couldn't even have a roof rack or tow bar - that just shows how it totally missed the target market - estate cars are for load carrying and it can't do that.

I'm not sure it's that big an issue for most people - estates are for putting stuff *inside*, you can put a roof rack or tow bar on a hatchback too. But even then, I reckon from observation that almost no cars have anything fitted to roof rails or have tow bars fitted. Easily under 1 in 100 cars I see.

I usually fit a towbar to my cars and have a roof box, bike rack, etc, but my latest car is so big inside (new Berlingo) I didn't bother with the tow bar and sold the roof box.

With the MG5 I think the roof rails with no rating was stupid, but I don't see a problem with selling one without rails given how few people actually use them.

I agree most people are wanting to put stuff internally but the MG isn't very good there either, its capacity isn't great, it has a large lip and the seats don't fold flat.  It's more like a hatchback than an estate and seems odd to make an estate that isn't that practical.
  
I'm a bit concerned about the popularity of SUVs these days but hopefully there will be some decent estates in time.

I couldn't agree more. The 35kg roof limit is fine for me because my canoe is only 17kg, but it's a bit silly. I believe the current model has an 85kg limit.

The space isn't great, but it's useable. They clearly didn't think about practicality when they designed it to look a bit like an estate car. However, it's approximately 1/3 of the price of the only other vaguely 'estate' EV on the market.

I was hoping for an electric Golf estate or 308sw etc. Sadly nothing has come along yet so it's MG5 or Porsche Taycan. 

GunJack

Petriix said:

A journey you only do once every 2 months shouldn't really be the deciding factor on your main mode of transport. You're right that it wouldn't be possible to do that trip in the same way you do it now with an EV. I'd have to charge twice (or more likely 3 shorter stops) and generally drive slower. It would make it rather painful. However, it would be trivial to just hire a hybrid or maybe take the train on those occasions if you really weren't able to travel slower.

Errr...yes it would. They are the pre-planned journeys, what about the sudden, unexpected ones (I'm thinking illness, especially if dealing with elderly parents, accidents, etc.)?

As for hiring a car or going on the train, I'd like to see you walk out your front door at 3 a.m. and do either of those things straight off - in @Elliott.T123 's case he'd be in Edinburgh before either of those options got going.

..and that's the sort of flexibility that the EV converts don't seem to get. As others on here have commented, I'm not anti-EV, but they're nowhere near as flexible or cost effective yet for the majority.

Petriix

GunJack said:

Petriix said:

A journey you only do once every 2 months shouldn't really be the deciding factor on your main mode of transport. You're right that it wouldn't be possible to do that trip in the same way you do it now with an EV. I'd have to charge twice (or more likely 3 shorter stops) and generally drive slower. It would make it rather painful. However, it would be trivial to just hire a hybrid or maybe take the train on those occasions if you really weren't able to travel slower.

Errr...yes it would. They are the pre-planned journeys, what about the sudden, unexpected ones (I'm thinking illness, especially if dealing with elderly parents, accidents, etc.)?

As for hiring a car or going on the train, I'd like to see you walk out your front door at 3 a.m. and do either of those things straight off - in @Elliott.T123 's case he'd be in Edinburgh before either of those options got going.

..and that's the sort of flexibility that the EV converts don't seem to get. As others on here have commented, I'm not anti-EV, but they're nowhere near as flexible or cost effective yet for the majority.

I'm well aware of the adaptations I've had to make to switch to an EV. I don't have relatives 400 miles away that I'd have to visit in an emergency. I'm struggling to imagine a scenario where I would personally need to do an emergency journey that couldn't accommodate a rapid charge.

It's about accepting a degree of compromise in order to gain the benefits. On occasional long journeys I have to drive slower and plan where I charge. The rest of the time I wake up with whatever state of charge I planned and enjoy the serenity.

I don't understand what you mean about not being cost effective for the majority. EVs are extremely cost effective for anyone with off-street parking (which is the majority) and reliable smart meter signal (I have no data for this).

Benny2020

Electricity is going up by another 40% in October.

Herzlos

Benny2020 said:

Electricity is going up by another 40% in October.

Which is completely unsustainable, but that still leaves it cheaper than diesel (though not by as much).

Herzlos

Petriix said:

Johnmcl7 said:

Herzlos said:

Deleted_User said:

 Who would buy an ICE estate that couldn't even have a roof rack or tow bar - that just shows how it totally missed the target market - estate cars are for load carrying and it can't do that.

I'm not sure it's that big an issue for most people - estates are for putting stuff *inside*, you can put a roof rack or tow bar on a hatchback too. But even then, I reckon from observation that almost no cars have anything fitted to roof rails or have tow bars fitted. Easily under 1 in 100 cars I see.

I usually fit a towbar to my cars and have a roof box, bike rack, etc, but my latest car is so big inside (new Berlingo) I didn't bother with the tow bar and sold the roof box.

With the MG5 I think the roof rails with no rating was stupid, but I don't see a problem with selling one without rails given how few people actually use them.

I agree most people are wanting to put stuff internally but the MG isn't very good there either, its capacity isn't great, it has a large lip and the seats don't fold flat.  It's more like a hatchback than an estate and seems odd to make an estate that isn't that practical.
  
I'm a bit concerned about the popularity of SUVs these days but hopefully there will be some decent estates in time.

I couldn't agree more. The 35kg roof limit is fine for me because my canoe is only 17kg, but it's a bit silly. I believe the current model has an 85kg limit.

The space isn't great, but it's useable. They clearly didn't think about practicality when they designed it to look a bit like an estate car. However, it's approximately 1/3 of the price of the only other vaguely 'estate' EV on the market.

I was hoping for an electric Golf estate or 308sw etc. Sadly nothing has come along yet so it's MG5 or Porsche Taycan. 

There's the Berlingo/Combo Life, though technically MPV hatchbacks, have phenomenal internal space. 900l seats up, 2000l seats down, for the shorter version in 5 seat configuration.

I didn't actually get round to looking at the MG5EV because the roof rating put me off, for the same money I went to look at a Dacia Jogger and then ended up buying a Berlingo (petrol). 

Benny2020

Not many choosing between a MG and a Porsche Taycan.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos said:

Benny2020 said:

Electricity is going up by another 40% in October.

Which is completely unsustainable, but that still leaves it cheaper than diesel (though not by as much).

Perhaps the final solution that's required to address climate change extends well beyond EV's. 

Bonniepurple

One thing that I have heard (from watching stuff like Trucking Hell!) is that if an EV catches fire (accident/caught up in a blaze) then it’s much, much harder and more dangerous to extinguish than an ICE vehicle.  In one episode they had to submerge an EV in a skip full of water for some time before the vehicle was safe.  There was also this very recently:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-61543634

I suppose I’m wondering what the safety and practical implications of EVs and fires are.  It sounds (to my very untrained brain) like they would be more resource heavy than the equivalent in an ICE.  I know vehicle fires are rare, but…

Herzlos

Thrugelmir said:

Herzlos said:

Benny2020 said:

Electricity is going up by another 40% in October.

Which is completely unsustainable, but that still leaves it cheaper than diesel (though not by as much).

Perhaps the final solution that's required to address climate change extends well beyond EV's. 

Yeah, we really should be finding a way to move beyond private cars which are horribly inefficient in terms of space, fuel storage and propulsion.

Just think how much land we've concreted over to store cars when we're not using them, and how much time we spend not using them. A fleet of autonomous taxis could replace a private car fleet easily 10 times larger without needing so much parking space, given the taxi could drop someone off at a loading bay at the front door and then drive to the next job or nearest charging point. Even better would be trains, trams or trolley buses getting their power from overhead lines thus not requiring any or much batteries. Good, safe cycling paths would also be a huge improvement for everyone.

But until we get to that stage, an EV is going to be a lot better than an ICE. Which would you rather be standing behind in an enclosed space?