The big fat Electric Vehicle bashing thread.

Ibrahim5

You always get funny things like that with statistics. The EV drivers were probably driving super slow to conserve battery. Cars with ABS were more likely to crash than those without. All statistical games.

Petriix

It's hilarious that, even when explained, people still seem to think that a 1 star safety rating today is worse than a 5 star rating from a few years ago - with repeated claims that the latest Zoe is less safe than its predecessor. The current MG5 has all the required active safety features to achieve a good score. I believe my old Peugeot scored 4 stars yet only had a single airbag for the driver and front passenger and no active safety features.

Herzlos

It suits the narrative though, doesn't it?

[Deleted User]

Petriix said:

It's hilarious that, even when explained, people still seem to think that a 1 star safety rating today is worse than a 5 star rating from a few years ago - with repeated claims that the latest Zoe is less safe than its predecessor. The current MG5 has all the required active safety features to achieve a good score. I believe my old Peugeot scored 4 stars yet only had a single airbag for the driver and front passenger and no active safety features.

I think you have totally missed my point, I haven't said 1 star is worse than 5 stars from years ago. Safety must move on and improve.

However you are totally wrong about the Renault Zoe - the head airbag has been deleted which makes it worse than 2013. They also removed the load limiter for the rear seat belts and still haven't bother with a rear airbag or rear belt pre-tensioners. There is no excuse for that, Renault used to make some of the safest cars and they have totally skimped to save a few quid.

Most EV's are making 4 and 5 stars on the new revised testing.

My point is that 3 of the cars repeatedly recommended based on purchase cost and fuel costs on this thread have poor safety. I wouldn't buy an ICE purely on cost and MPG and therefore for balance it is important that these are mentioned to potential buyers.

The MG5 has not been awarded any stars so far so we don't know but given its heritage and massive clangers in the build of it, I doubt it would score well. Who would buy an ICE estate that couldn't even have a roof rack or tow bar - that just shows how it totally missed the target market - estate cars are for load carrying and it can't do that.

As I said, there are plenty of 4 or 5 star EV's in the current testing regime and I think it is wise to warn anybody reading this thread about the Zoe, Spring and MG5.

I've looked at the spec of the for the standard (non-long range) MG5 and it doesn't have any of the new active features required by NCAP.

I've said repeatedly on this thread that I'm not anti-EV but I'm pro-facts and I can't see why anybody is getting defensive about me pointing out the lack of safety on a minority of EV's. Same with ICE, just look at the Dacia range, again some terrible NCAP ratings that I wouldn't touch either but often get mentioned on these forums as bargain cars - I'd say exactly the same about them.

[Deleted User]

Herzlos said:

It suits the narrative though, doesn't it?

Depends on your narrative though, cheap motoring regardless of safety is not a narrative I support. Can't put a price on saving lives, reducing crashes and injuries.

One of the active safety features on my 8yr old ICE saved me from a collision when an HGV at rear side of me decided to pull into my lane whilst all 6 of my family were in the car recently. Can't put a price on that.

Herzlos

[Deleted User] said:

 Who would buy an ICE estate that couldn't even have a roof rack or tow bar - that just shows how it totally missed the target market - estate cars are for load carrying and it can't do that.

I'm not sure it's that big an issue for most people - estates are for putting stuff *inside*, you can put a roof rack or tow bar on a hatchback too. But even then, I reckon from observation that almost no cars have anything fitted to roof rails or have tow bars fitted. Easily under 1 in 100 cars I see.

I usually fit a towbar to my cars and have a roof box, bike rack, etc, but my latest car is so big inside (new Berlingo) I didn't bother with the tow bar and sold the roof box.

With the MG5 I think the roof rails with no rating was stupid, but I don't see a problem with selling one without rails given how few people actually use them.

Herzlos

Deleted_User said:

Herzlos said:

It suits the narrative though, doesn't it?

Depends on your narrative though, cheap motoring regardless of safety is not a narrative I support. Can't put a price on saving lives, reducing crashes and injuries.

One of the active safety features on my 8yr old ICE saved me from a collision when an HGV at rear side of me decided to pull into my lane whilst all 6 of my family were in the car recently. Can't put a price on that.

Safety rarely comes up on here, and some of the biggest EV detractors on here rave on about the merits of cars with essentially no safety features.

As mentioned already, as long as the comparison is like for like, then there's no problem with that. A 2022 EV should be as safe as the equivalent ICE (and generally they do better), but it's a bit dodgy to be claiming that an EV is too expensive because someone bought a 2003 Ford Focus for £200 AND then be complaining that they don't have suitable safety kit relative to modern standards. I'm not accusing you of this personally, though.

I've no idea why Renault removed those features, I wonder if they determined that it didn't make much difference somehow, but it's still worth re-iterating that a 1 star new-NCAP car isn't necessarily any less safe than a 5 star old-NCAP.

I don't understand why the MG5 EV hasn't been through NCAP, but the MG ZS EV got 5 stars in the old NCAP so I can't see the MG5 being a safety liability unless they've got nothing in common beyond a badge.

What was the active safety feature that saved you? I can't picture anything that'd deal with a lane change behind you, unless I'm picturing it wrong.

Elliott.T123

For me it still comes down to range, although I accept I am in a somewhat special situation. My wife and I have family in Edinburgh and visit anywhere from 4-7 times a year. We drive up from the south coast. Depending on route it is anywhere from 430-480 miles and that is assuming no roadworks/diversions. Add in the fact that you will almost always end up sat in traffic at some point and there is no way of doing that journey without stopping for a charge. Currently we do the journey in two stints with a 15 minute stop about 2/3 of the way. 

I do also worry massively about the infrastructure and the impact on the electrical grid. The UK does not currently have a huge excess of power, what happens when every vehicle in he country is suddenly connected to the grid as well.... right now we would have brown outs, until we have increased out generation capacity we cant tell everyone to have an EV.

The other issue is how to implement charging infrastructure in older housing. What happens to those people who have to park 2/3 roads away from their house? Are we saying they can only use their car if they have been luckily enough to charge it that day at the supermarket or work happen to have chargers or do you fit every single on street parking space with a charger? 

I am fully on board with EV and do believe they are the future, I believe they are a key weapon in fighting climate change however I also think a lot more thought and investment needs to go into both the EV and the infrastructure around them before they reach a point that we can ban ICE.

Petriix

Elliott.T123 said:

For me it still comes down to range, although I accept I am in a somewhat special situation. My wife and I have family in Edinburgh and visit anywhere from 4-7 times a year. We drive up from the south coast. Depending on route it is anywhere from 430-480 miles and that is assuming no roadworks/diversions. Add in the fact that you will almost always end up sat in traffic at some point and there is no way of doing that journey without stopping for a charge. Currently we do the journey in two stints with a 15 minute stop about 2/3 of the way. 

I do also worry massively about the infrastructure and the impact on the electrical grid. The UK does not currently have a huge excess of power, what happens when every vehicle in he country is suddenly connected to the grid as well.... right now we would have brown outs, until we have increased out generation capacity we cant tell everyone to have an EV.

The other issue is how to implement charging infrastructure in older housing. What happens to those people who have to park 2/3 roads away from their house? Are we saying they can only use their car if they have been luckily enough to charge it that day at the supermarket or work happen to have chargers or do you fit every single on street parking space with a charger? 

I am fully on board with EV and do believe they are the future, I believe they are a key weapon in fighting climate change however I also think a lot more thought and investment needs to go into both the EV and the infrastructure around them before they reach a point that we can ban ICE.

A journey you only do once every 2 months shouldn't really be the deciding factor on your main mode of transport. You're right that it wouldn't be possible to do that trip in the same way you do it now with an EV. I'd have to charge twice (or more likely 3 shorter stops) and generally drive slower. It would make it rather painful. However, it would be trivial to just hire a hybrid or maybe take the train on those occasions if you really weren't able to travel slower.

Good news on the grid side of things as National Grid themselves say there's plenty of capacity, as long as charging is managed in a 'smart' way to avoid peak times where possible. Many of us EV owners are already well versed in utilising the off peak windows on Octopus Go and now Intelligent.

You're right that people without home charging currently face a massive disadvantage.

Johnmcl7

Herzlos said:

Deleted_User said:

 Who would buy an ICE estate that couldn't even have a roof rack or tow bar - that just shows how it totally missed the target market - estate cars are for load carrying and it can't do that.

I'm not sure it's that big an issue for most people - estates are for putting stuff *inside*, you can put a roof rack or tow bar on a hatchback too. But even then, I reckon from observation that almost no cars have anything fitted to roof rails or have tow bars fitted. Easily under 1 in 100 cars I see.

I usually fit a towbar to my cars and have a roof box, bike rack, etc, but my latest car is so big inside (new Berlingo) I didn't bother with the tow bar and sold the roof box.

With the MG5 I think the roof rails with no rating was stupid, but I don't see a problem with selling one without rails given how few people actually use them.

I agree most people are wanting to put stuff internally but the MG isn't very good there either, its capacity isn't great, it has a large lip and the seats don't fold flat.  It's more like a hatchback than an estate and seems odd to make an estate that isn't that practical.
  
I'm a bit concerned about the popularity of SUVs these days but hopefully there will be some decent estates in time.