Zog has gone 😢

[Deleted User]

dbks said:

Dolor said:

I struggle to understand why so many people think that a failed supplier is going to, or is able to, cough up £Ms to cover the repayment of credit balances? The credit balances are paid for by all consumers through a levy added to our energy bills. 

I struggle to understand why you think the credit balances of a failed supplier is going to be recovered through a levy added to our energy bills.

It's been explained to you countless times, and with evidence, that that is not necessarily the case.

But you still repeat the errant messages on this site.

Please explain to me again how a supplier that is insolvent can make repayments in full to unsecured creditors? If that was the case, then why did Ofgem bring in the Consumer Levy protection in late 2016. Also, please explain, why customers owed money by a failed supplier under the SEG scheme are being instructed to make a claim to the Administrator as unsecured creditors? Final billing is not the same as the repayment of customer credits.

dbks

Dolor said:

dbks said:

Dolor said:

I struggle to understand why so many people think that a failed supplier is going to, or is able to, cough up £Ms to cover the repayment of credit balances? The credit balances are paid for by all consumers through a levy added to our energy bills. 

I struggle to understand why you think the credit balances of a failed supplier is going to be recovered through a levy added to our energy bills.

It's been explained to you countless times, and with evidence, that that is not necessarily the case.

But you still repeat the errant messages on this site.

Please explain to me again how a supplier that is insolvent can make repayments in full to unsecured creditors? If that was the case, then why did Ofgem bring in the Consumer Levy protection in late 2016. Also, please explain, why customers owed money by a failed supplier under the SEG scheme are being instructed to make a claim to the Administrator as unsecured creditors? Final billing is not the same as the repayment of customer credits.

Oh dear.

I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to you again. Please refer to the replies you have received previously when you have posted this fallacy.

In the case of Zog Energy, they did not cease trading because they were insolvent, but rather because they would have become insolvent if they did not cease trading.
All their customers on fixed tariff were hedged, but the wholesaler who originally agreed the hedges withdrew them (by ceasing to trade themselves) as the value of the hedges was worth more than the value of that wholesaler.

As at 2021 accounts, Zog had almost £0.5m in the bank, and had made a trading profit of over £300k from 2020.

What has the SEG scheme got to do with Zog Energy, a former retail supplier of gas?

[Deleted User]

dbks said:

Dolor said:

dbks said:

Dolor said:

I struggle to understand why so many people think that a failed supplier is going to, or is able to, cough up £Ms to cover the repayment of credit balances? The credit balances are paid for by all consumers through a levy added to our energy bills. 

I struggle to understand why you think the credit balances of a failed supplier is going to be recovered through a levy added to our energy bills.

It's been explained to you countless times, and with evidence, that that is not necessarily the case.

But you still repeat the errant messages on this site.

Please explain to me again how a supplier that is insolvent can make repayments in full to unsecured creditors? If that was the case, then why did Ofgem bring in the Consumer Levy protection in late 2016. Also, please explain, why customers owed money by a failed supplier under the SEG scheme are being instructed to make a claim to the Administrator as unsecured creditors? Final billing is not the same as the repayment of customer credits.

Oh dear.

I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to you again. Please refer to the replies you have received previously when you have posted this fallacy.

In the case of Zog Energy, they did not cease trading because they were insolvent, but rather because they would have become insolvent if they did not cease trading.
All their customers on fixed tariff were hedged, but the wholesaler who originally agreed the hedges withdrew them (by ceasing to trade themselves) as the value of the hedges was worth more than the value of that wholesaler.

As at 2021 accounts, Zog had almost £0.5m in the bank, and had made a trading profit of over £300k from 2020.

What has the SEG scheme got to do with Zog Energy, a former retail supplier of gas?

Companies do not call in an Administrator if they are able to continue trading. Scrivener was appointed as the Administrator for Zog Energy on the 9th December. Once that happens, the Administrator runs the business. Any money left in the business is administered as follows:

Hierarchy of creditors in administration

Secured creditors with a fixed charge

Secured creditors with a fixed charge typically include the bank and other lenders, such as factoring companies. They’re paid using funds from the realisation of the asset(s).

Office-holder’s fees and expenses

The administrator’s/liquidator’s fees rank second in line for payment, and these include the expenses of carrying out the procedure.

Preferred creditors

Preferred creditors include employees of the company. Since 1st December 2020, HMRC are also ranked as secondary preferential creditors. This means they’re paid arrears of taxes that a company collects on their behalf, such as VAT and PAYE, but not those paid directly by a company – corporation tax, for example.

Creditors with a floating charge and the prescribed part

A floating charge covers a class of asset rather than a specific item, and can include stock and work-in-progress. These are assets that typically change during the course of day-to-day business.

The prescribed part is a sum of money set aside at this point from the proceeds of realisation of floating charge assets. It’s designed to provide unsecured creditors with a greater possibility of repayment in some form, and a maximum of £800,000 can be set aside in this way.

Unsecured creditors

Claims made by unsecured creditors lie at the bottom of the hierarchy for payment in an administration process, which means by this stage, their return is typically low. Payment is made from the sale of unsecured assets, and in many cases there is little, if any, money left to distribute. Unsecured creditors can include suppliers, customers, and HMRC for tax arrears owed directly by the company.

Connected unsecured creditors

Unsecured creditors associated with the company in some way – perhaps family members who loaned money to the business, for example – rank below general unsecured creditors.

Even if all the money that Zog had in the Bank was used for the repayment of consumer credits it would equate to about £43.47 per consumer.

If further support for my opinion is needed, then this is what Ofgem said in 2016:

Quote: 

But there may also be a risk to customers’ money if their account is in credit.

As direct debit payments spread the cost evenly throughout the year, customers typically build up credit during summer which might peak at just over £100. This credit covers the cost of customers using more energy during the winter.

As unsecured creditors, these customers are unlikely to get their money back if their supplier becomes insolvent.

However, under the new safety net, Ofgem will now take into account who can best protect consumers’ credit balances as part of the process for selecting a replacement supplier.

Where necessary, Ofgem would allow the replacement supplier to recoup the cost of reimbursing the credit balances through an industry levy.

This levy, which would be spread across all energy customers, would only have a small impact on bills. 

Unquote

Let’s agree to disagree.

dbks

[Deleted User] said:

dbks said:

[Deleted User] said:

dbks said:

[Deleted User] said:

I struggle to understand why so many people think that a failed supplier is going to, or is able to, cough up £Ms to cover the repayment of credit balances? The credit balances are paid for by all consumers through a levy added to our energy bills. 

I struggle to understand why you think the credit balances of a failed supplier is going to be recovered through a levy added to our energy bills.

It's been explained to you countless times, and with evidence, that that is not necessarily the case.

But you still repeat the errant messages on this site.

Please explain to me again how a supplier that is insolvent can make repayments in full to unsecured creditors? If that was the case, then why did Ofgem bring in the Consumer Levy protection in late 2016. Also, please explain, why customers owed money by a failed supplier under the SEG scheme are being instructed to make a claim to the Administrator as unsecured creditors? Final billing is not the same as the repayment of customer credits.

Oh dear.

I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to you again. Please refer to the replies you have received previously when you have posted this fallacy.

In the case of Zog Energy, they did not cease trading because they were insolvent, but rather because they would have become insolvent if they did not cease trading.
All their customers on fixed tariff were hedged, but the wholesaler who originally agreed the hedges withdrew them (by ceasing to trade themselves) as the value of the hedges was worth more than the value of that wholesaler.

As at 2021 accounts, Zog had almost £0.5m in the bank, and had made a trading profit of over £300k from 2020.

What has the SEG scheme got to do with Zog Energy, a former retail supplier of gas?

Let’s agree to disagree.

I'll agree to disagree if you agree to stop posting the same, incorrect information all over this board, in every thread you can force it into

Verdigris

Dolor is correct, though.

The only thing I can fault him on is pluralising SI units.

BUFF

Gerry1 said:

BUFF said:

more correctly you are £358 in credit - they probably have something in the terms & conditions about how much they will be willing to refund you at any time other than closing your account e.g. you need to be at least a month's supply in credit.

Nope, Zog went bust so the £358 will be applied to gunner786's EDF SoLR account in due course.

Correct, I obviously was suffering from brain fade at the time ... 

Sandybanks

dbks said:

gunner786 said:

 So do they owe me £358?

You are owed £358.16

That is because on the Zog tariff you were on and the estimated annual consumption based on the previous 12 months usage, it would have cost you £725.24, so you should have been paying about £60.44 pcm

But you were actually paying Zog £83.97pcm, which means you would have paid Zog over £1000 for the year.

Why?

Did you expect to use so much more gas this year than last?
Zog were often very reasonable about any request for a refund or reduction in monthly payment (where the figures justified it)
Zog also usually reviewed what you paid every time you opted for a new tariff. When did you join them?

Now you will have to wait for EDF to credit your account with the amount owed, by which time much of the credit may well have been eaten up by the much more expensive EDF tariff you are now on.

Looks like a lot of people you are unlucky with the outstanding credit because of the time of year that the supplier went bust. My 8 years worth of  monthly usage figures show that every year the biggest consumption of Gas is in Dec, Jan, Feb & Mar. I can easily use twice as much as the month of November although it does depend on what the weather is like for the year. His bill for November was more than his direct debit. Very possible with cold weather he could have used double his direct debit for each month which is 4 x £80 =£320 around about the currect credit.

gunner786

Anyone have any idea till when will edf credit us with our zig balance?

Mr_K

gunner786 said:

Anyone have any idea till when will edf credit us with our zig balance?

Don't know, but if I don't get my £1.98 credited soon, I'm writing to my MP

[Deleted User]

The EDF 'Welcome Zog' web page has been updated today, 12th Jan - not that I can spot any earth shattering new information.

https://www.edfenergy.com/welcoming-zog-energy-customers

(Note that the 'read more' at the bottom of the page just shows last week's update) 

From personal experience, it seems that EDFs response time to customer enquiries has slowed considerably of late.