Employer forcing into office

JCS1

sheramber said:

My DIL has been off work for 1 year with anxiety.  She  readily admits she knows it is irrational. But is no less real.

wannabe_a_saver. Severe anxiety is, thankfully, very treatable.  

My DIL and her GP  and her counsellor  would be very grateful if you would share this treatment.

CBT is usually the recommended treatment, alongside more traditional medication.

justworriedabit

JamoLew said:

phillw said:

MattMattMattUK said:
When it comes to Covid, the vulnerable have been vaccinated, many have been fully vaccinated, the infection rate is very low and those who are healthy have almost zero risk from Covid. So the risk of someone who is healthy, catching, then suffering severe effects from the virus is incredibly low, low enough that an anxiety about Covid is irrational. 

If you're not allowed by law to hug someone from outside your household, then I'm not sure it's that irrational.

Another month or two and it's another story of course.

I'd like to know what training can be done face to face that would actually meet covid safe guidelines for the work place, which couldn't be performed easier on zoom.

If the employer is either skimping on covid safeness or going to extra effort to force people into the office, then I would argue on their reasonableness. The "effectively there is no pandemic" argument is not reasonable.

We currently have 20+ students in our department undergoing hands-on training

They can't do the job without it and wouldn't get their qualification

We most definitely meet Covid safe guidelines 

I have no doubt you do but you are not in the shoes of the OP and their co.

If you wish, read through my posts re my experiences first and secondhand.

to write off someones fears/worries like you have reminds me of my bullying so-called managers and their cronies and I'm glad that was years ago but as posted here they found out that not everyone can be pushed around just so they are looking good and often hardly working but spending time on making plans on how to trip up workers they don't like because of their own insecurities.

justworriedabit

Thrugelmir said:

wannabe_a_saver said:

MattMattMattUK said:

cannugec5 said:

I am astonished by how many people are so dismissive of a diagnosis of anxiety. Anxiety can be extremely debilitating. It is not irrational to be anxious about a real threat. If one has an existing anxiety disorder (and I’m not saying the OP has, I don’t know) a further threat will only exacerbate that. 

It is irrational to be anxious about a real threat if the assessment of the threat level and/or risk is wrong. I would be scared of an asteroid impacting the planet, if indeed one was on a collision course with the Earth, anxiety would be a pre-occupation with that impact event even when one was not occurring. The chances of it happening are very low, the risk of it happening with no warning is even less.

When it comes to Covid, the vulnerable have been vaccinated, many have been fully vaccinated, the infection rate is very low and those who are healthy have almost zero risk from Covid. So the risk of someone who is healthy, catching, then suffering severe effects from the virus is incredibly low, low enough that an anxiety about Covid is irrational. 

The fact that anxiety is irrational doesn't make it any less real or any less distressing.  Ask any OCD sufferer. 

If someone has a fear of working in close proximity to others in a confined area. Then no amount of adjustment can cater for the "disability".  In the same way that many people have a fear for heights. Which makes many roles/professions unsuitable for them. 

With respect, you forgot the word 'covid' as in this OP's case.  I'm guessing that when Covid is more controlled, I'm sure this OP will happily join in the events etc but ATM they are worried re self and bringing home the virus to vulnerable family.

wannabe_a_saver

sheramber said:

My DIL has been off work for 1 year with anxiety.  She  readily admits she knows it is irrational. But is no less real.

wannabe_a_saver. Severe anxiety is, thankfully, very treatable.  

My DIL and her GP  and her counsellor  would be very grateful if you would share this treatment.

There are lots of people who have suffered with crippling anxiety who are now living well and happily on various different medications.  Some of them are very good friends of mine.  It can take a while to get the meds exactly right, and of course some people will have more complex issues than others to deal with, but for most people suffering with anxiety there is very definitely a way to feel a lot better. 

JCS1

I have severe depression and anxiety, and also until the end of March had the letter to shield.

I have however been into the office which is covid-secure once the first lockdown ended.  It is safer in the office than the supermarket due to the procedures in place.  We have one way system, hand sanitizer stations, signage everywhere and meeting rooms have maximum numbers of people allowed in them.

Has the OP asked their employer to see the risk assessment and maybe even visited for 10 minutes to see what the set up is?

Thrugelmir

wannabe_a_saver said:

Thrugelmir said:

wannabe_a_saver said:

MattMattMattUK said:

cannugec5 said:

I am astonished by how many people are so dismissive of a diagnosis of anxiety. Anxiety can be extremely debilitating. It is not irrational to be anxious about a real threat. If one has an existing anxiety disorder (and I’m not saying the OP has, I don’t know) a further threat will only exacerbate that. 

It is irrational to be anxious about a real threat if the assessment of the threat level and/or risk is wrong. I would be scared of an asteroid impacting the planet, if indeed one was on a collision course with the Earth, anxiety would be a pre-occupation with that impact event even when one was not occurring. The chances of it happening are very low, the risk of it happening with no warning is even less.

When it comes to Covid, the vulnerable have been vaccinated, many have been fully vaccinated, the infection rate is very low and those who are healthy have almost zero risk from Covid. So the risk of someone who is healthy, catching, then suffering severe effects from the virus is incredibly low, low enough that an anxiety about Covid is irrational. 

The fact that anxiety is irrational doesn't make it any less real or any less distressing.  Ask any OCD sufferer. 

If someone has a fear of working in close proximity to others in a confined area. Then no amount of adjustment can cater for the "disability".  In the same way that many people have a fear for heights. Which makes many roles/professions unsuitable for them. 

Severe anxiety is, thankfully, very treatable.  

That's not the employers responsibility though. The employee should obtain a sick note and be signed off work for the duration. Covid as a disease isn't going to suddenly disappear. It's something that we'll all need to live with for the foreseeable future. 

unholyangel

Having a disability doesn't mean your employer has to make any adjustment you request of them.

Specifically, employers have a duty to consider reasonable adjustments in the following circumstances. 
1) A practice/policy puts the disabled person at a substantial disadvantage, compared to those who are not disabled
2) A physical feature puts the disabled person at a substantial disadvantage, compared to those who are not disabled.
3) Where the disabled person would be at a substantial disadvantage (compared to non-disabled person) without an auxiliary aid, then the employer should provide the aid. 

However, essentially there is no expectation or obligation for the employer to change the nature of the job - you can't apply for a job as a call centre worker and then expect to be put on clerical work because you have anxiety about speaking to people on the phone or are deaf. Reasonable adjustment would possibly be the ability to take a break after a particularly difficult call or an adapted headset (that works with a hearing aid), not changing the job itself. 

If OP was the person who I remember posted on here a similar situation, I advised they should be careful about claiming their disability prevents them from attending their workplace to carry out their job as it could lead to their dismissal on medical grounds. Yes, they could be signed off sick - but this would only be a temporary measure for circumstances to change/their condition to improve. They could ask their employer to make an adjustment to allow them to work from home where possible (even part time to limit time in the office) - but whether it's reasonable would depend on the facts of the case. If it would be impractical or too disruptive to the employers operations then there's a good chance it won't be reasonable. If you can't do the job you were hired for, for medical reasons, then your employer would have justification for terminating the employment. Although of course, they should consider any reasonable alternative if available (such as reasonable adjustments or redeployment), as an alternative to dismissal. 

The OP has asked a question that has a very complex answer, but they haven't given the relevant information. From their previous threads though, it appears there have been issues for more than 6 months about having to attend the workplace. So the issue seems to be more than the 3 hours training they're being asked to attend now. 

wannabe_a_saver

Thrugelmir said:

wannabe_a_saver said:

Thrugelmir said:

wannabe_a_saver said:

MattMattMattUK said:

cannugec5 said:

I am astonished by how many people are so dismissive of a diagnosis of anxiety. Anxiety can be extremely debilitating. It is not irrational to be anxious about a real threat. If one has an existing anxiety disorder (and I’m not saying the OP has, I don’t know) a further threat will only exacerbate that. 

It is irrational to be anxious about a real threat if the assessment of the threat level and/or risk is wrong. I would be scared of an asteroid impacting the planet, if indeed one was on a collision course with the Earth, anxiety would be a pre-occupation with that impact event even when one was not occurring. The chances of it happening are very low, the risk of it happening with no warning is even less.

When it comes to Covid, the vulnerable have been vaccinated, many have been fully vaccinated, the infection rate is very low and those who are healthy have almost zero risk from Covid. So the risk of someone who is healthy, catching, then suffering severe effects from the virus is incredibly low, low enough that an anxiety about Covid is irrational. 

The fact that anxiety is irrational doesn't make it any less real or any less distressing.  Ask any OCD sufferer. 

If someone has a fear of working in close proximity to others in a confined area. Then no amount of adjustment can cater for the "disability".  In the same way that many people have a fear for heights. Which makes many roles/professions unsuitable for them. 

Severe anxiety is, thankfully, very treatable.  

That's not the employers responsibility though. 

Where did I say it was?

If it meets the criteria of a disability under the Equality Act they are legally required to make reasonable adjustments though. 

Thrugelmir

wannabe_a_saver said:

Thrugelmir said:

wannabe_a_saver said:

Thrugelmir said:

wannabe_a_saver said:

MattMattMattUK said:

cannugec5 said:

I am astonished by how many people are so dismissive of a diagnosis of anxiety. Anxiety can be extremely debilitating. It is not irrational to be anxious about a real threat. If one has an existing anxiety disorder (and I’m not saying the OP has, I don’t know) a further threat will only exacerbate that. 

It is irrational to be anxious about a real threat if the assessment of the threat level and/or risk is wrong. I would be scared of an asteroid impacting the planet, if indeed one was on a collision course with the Earth, anxiety would be a pre-occupation with that impact event even when one was not occurring. The chances of it happening are very low, the risk of it happening with no warning is even less.

When it comes to Covid, the vulnerable have been vaccinated, many have been fully vaccinated, the infection rate is very low and those who are healthy have almost zero risk from Covid. So the risk of someone who is healthy, catching, then suffering severe effects from the virus is incredibly low, low enough that an anxiety about Covid is irrational. 

The fact that anxiety is irrational doesn't make it any less real or any less distressing.  Ask any OCD sufferer. 

If someone has a fear of working in close proximity to others in a confined area. Then no amount of adjustment can cater for the "disability".  In the same way that many people have a fear for heights. Which makes many roles/professions unsuitable for them. 

Severe anxiety is, thankfully, very treatable.  

That's not the employers responsibility though. 

Where did I say it was?

If it meets the criteria of a disability under the Equality Act they are legally required to make reasonable adjustments though. 

In the workplace. Not a broad generic requirement. 

GeordieGeorge

justworriedabit said:

sheramber said:

My DIL has been off work for 1 year with anxiety.  She  readily admits she knows it is irrational. But is no less real.

wannabe_a_saver. Severe anxiety is, thankfully, very treatable.  

My DIL and her GP  and her counsellor  would be very grateful if you would share this treatment.

Sorry to hear about that.

This thread reminds me of the bad old days when some laughed at those with fears, etc and were very dismissive as they possibly had not experience it first hand via self, close family etc.

It reminds me of the bad ok’d days of the ‘70s where workers thought it a real imposition that they should be expected to do a full day’s work.

The OP has not indicated that they are considered disabled, they’d just rather not go in to work. No-one can force them to go, but given how flimsy their reason is, and given their history, there’s a good chance that the employer will just ask them not to return.