Employer forcing into office

JamoLew

But what the employee wants is largely irrelevant is the point that people aren’t appreciating.

Its what the employer wants and will “allow” that is relevant

Granted, some employers may adopt WFH in their thinking but for many others it just isn’t viable or sustainable.

As an employee you have no “power” to dictate which approach the company takes nor do you have any legal rights in this regard

Thrugelmir

[DELETED USER] said:

Thrugelmir said:

[DELETED USER] said:

Going forward WFH will be a major benefit and employers that don't offer it will be at a disadvantage. They need to think carefully about the offer they make to employees if they want to retain them.

Many variables to be considered from both the employees and employers perspective. Not least that many people cannot be trusted to work unsupervised. 

Employers who take that attitude will be losing a lot of good staff. Being told you can't work from home because the boss doesn't trust you to work is a pretty clear message.

The thing to remember is that no one is indispensable. Never wise to overestimate ones worth. Employers aren't going to blackmailed. No one is going to stop you leaving. One consequence of the pandemic is that there'll be plenty of people either looking for work or a better paid job. Who'll happily accept the terms on offer. 

sheramber

Unless your contract of employment states you can work form home then your employer has every right to expect you to go into the employer's  premises and you have yo right to refuse.

SingleSue

I have no option but to go into work (well once we are allowed to reopen) as our work cannot be done from home. I was a shielder, returned last July (2 weeks after we were allowed to open and 2 weeks before shielding guidelines were paused) and have no qualms about returning again next month. We're all counting down the days until we are allowed back.

Was I anxious last July? Oh goodness yes but I knew they had done everything possible to ensure our safety and we had all had to undergo Covid safe training before returning. It was one of the most nerve wracking things I have done walking in on my first morning but by the end of the shift, it felt like I had never been away...well apart from all the extra cleaning and sanitising of things!

SpiderLegs

[DELETED USER] said:

Thrugelmir said:

[DELETED USER] said:

Going forward WFH will be a major benefit and employers that don't offer it will be at a disadvantage. They need to think carefully about the offer they make to employees if they want to retain them.

Many variables to be considered from both the employees and employers perspective. Not least that many people cannot be trusted to work unsupervised. 

Employers who take that attitude will be losing a lot of good staff. Being told you can't work from home because the boss doesn't trust you to work is a pretty clear message.

Of course some people will want to come to the office, which is fine. Many will want to do a hybrid of both.

Employers will make judgements based on their own business models. Permanent WFH for many is a pipe dream. Very few employees are irreplaceable, especially those occupying generic, white collar roles.

Nebulous2

lisyloo said:

jimi_man said:

I can't think of much training that would be better (or even possible) virtually - no doubt there is some. I imagine a lot depends on what profession the person is though.

Just for info, I’ve done a whole load of training that is perfectly suited to online with videos, quizzes, games etc.
some examples

ethics
anti corruption & bribery
unconscious bias
positive thinking
data protection & Gdpr
quality systems
Cyber security (games to find the phishing)

most technology training e.g. programming languages, operating systems, databases has been going online for many years,

obviously practical things like first aid, fire training, brick laying etc. Need to be done in person so as you say very much depends.

Ive been going to work since may 2020 and the biggest issue by far has been public transport and not a COVID secure office. Behaviour of people in offices has been much better controlled than on buses and trains.

E-learning has been developing traction in care for years, with a lot of companies using it long before Covid. Most companies who use it exclusively find it doesn't meet their needs and move back to at least some level of face to face training.  There are all sorts of issues, including assessment of learning - companies are wary, with stories of people paying their teenage children to do it for them for instance - how to you check that the knowledge has actually stuck? 

One area with most issues, other than the practical skills, is adult protection or safeguarding as it would be called in England. It is dealing with big moral / ethical dilemmas and a lot of the value in the training comes from the group discussions and questions - not the course material. People who complete their training on that, in isolation often have a very limited understanding of their responsibilities and can lack the 'sense' of this is wrong, that they need when issues arise. 

My own view is the best model is a mixed one, you can do both. E-learning has some real benefits, you can do it at a time that suits, you can repeat bits you haven't understood, you can learn at your own pace. Some areas - like cyber security - lend themselves well to e-learning, some not so much. 


I'm currently updating my own basic life support (resuscitation) Most of it has been moved on line and adapted to the pandemic, but there is a 2 hour practical component which is in a classroom setting. We have stopped doing mouth-to-mouth entirely due to the pandemic, with a bag with a valve used instead. I had assumed everyone was doing the same, but it may be that we are fortunate in having the necessary equipment on site. It wouldn't be so easy in community settings or finding someone in need of resuscitation in the street. 

wannabe_a_saver

Nebulous2 said:

lisyloo said:

jimi_man said:

I can't think of much training that would be better (or even possible) virtually - no doubt there is some. I imagine a lot depends on what profession the person is though.

Just for info, I’ve done a whole load of training that is perfectly suited to online with videos, quizzes, games etc.
some examples

ethics
anti corruption & bribery
unconscious bias
positive thinking
data protection & Gdpr
quality systems
Cyber security (games to find the phishing)

most technology training e.g. programming languages, operating systems, databases has been going online for many years,

obviously practical things like first aid, fire training, brick laying etc. Need to be done in person so as you say very much depends.

Ive been going to work since may 2020 and the biggest issue by far has been public transport and not a COVID secure office. Behaviour of people in offices has been much better controlled than on buses and trains.

 I had assumed everyone was doing the same, but it may be that we are fortunate in having the necessary equipment on site. It wouldn't be so easy in community settings or finding someone in need of resuscitation in the street. 

In that situation you would do compression only CPR.  To be honest, that's been the advice for non-health professionals for some time anyway.  Good quality compressions and fast access to an AED is the best chance of saving a life. 

MattMattMattUK

wannabe_a_saver said:

Nebulous2 said:

lisyloo said:

jimi_man said:

I can't think of much training that would be better (or even possible) virtually - no doubt there is some. I imagine a lot depends on what profession the person is though.

Just for info, I’ve done a whole load of training that is perfectly suited to online with videos, quizzes, games etc.
some examples

ethics
anti corruption & bribery
unconscious bias
positive thinking
data protection & Gdpr
quality systems
Cyber security (games to find the phishing)

most technology training e.g. programming languages, operating systems, databases has been going online for many years,

obviously practical things like first aid, fire training, brick laying etc. Need to be done in person so as you say very much depends.

Ive been going to work since may 2020 and the biggest issue by far has been public transport and not a COVID secure office. Behaviour of people in offices has been much better controlled than on buses and trains.

 I had assumed everyone was doing the same, but it may be that we are fortunate in having the necessary equipment on site. It wouldn't be so easy in community settings or finding someone in need of resuscitation in the street. 

In that situation you would do compression only CPR.  To be honest, that's been the advice for non-health professionals for some time anyway.  Good quality compressions and fast access to an AED is the best chance of saving a life. 

I refreshed my full first aid training last year and they still advise breath as well as compression, they current advice now seems to be to split the task between two people, alternating every minute or so, so that you do not get tired out. Having done proper chest compressions on a dummy, at the right level, for fifteen minutes I can understand why most people can not do them properly for a sustained period, it is surprisingly physically exerting. 

justworriedabit

SingleSue said:

I have no option but to go into work (well once we are allowed to reopen) as our work cannot be done from home. I was a shielder, returned last July (2 weeks after we were allowed to open and 2 weeks before shielding guidelines were paused) and have no qualms about returning again next month. We're all counting down the days until we are allowed back.

Was I anxious last July? Oh goodness yes but I knew they had done everything possible to ensure our safety and we had all had to undergo Covid safe training before returning. It was one of the most nerve wracking things I have done walking in on my first morning but by the end of the shift, it felt like I had never been away...well apart from all the extra cleaning and sanitising of things!

Good for you.

However, you have completely missed the OP's point yet again. It is not only the OP that feels vulnerable but they have others that are vulnerable living with them, or did you chose to ignore that? Very importantly, as you said, you went back to work but the OP is being called back for a few hours, why put the OP and their loved ones at risk for a few hours. Please read the OP's posts again and then compare your experiences with theirs but not forgetting they are in a totally different situation to you.

soolin

justworriedabit said:

SingleSue said:

I have no option but to go into work (well once we are allowed to reopen) as our work cannot be done from home. I was a shielder, returned last July (2 weeks after we were allowed to open and 2 weeks before shielding guidelines were paused) and have no qualms about returning again next month. We're all counting down the days until we are allowed back.

Was I anxious last July? Oh goodness yes but I knew they had done everything possible to ensure our safety and we had all had to undergo Covid safe training before returning. It was one of the most nerve wracking things I have done walking in on my first morning but by the end of the shift, it felt like I had never been away...well apart from all the extra cleaning and sanitising of things!

Good for you.

However, you have completely missed the OP's point yet again. It is not only the OP that feels vulnerable but they have others that are vulnerable living with them, or did you chose to ignore that? Very importantly, as you said, you went back to work but the OP is being called back for a few hours, why put the OP and their loved ones at risk for a few hours. Please read the OP's posts again and then compare your experiences with theirs but not forgetting they are in a totally different situation to you.

Actually the original poster did not mention other people living with them, some of the later posts have 

'I suffer from Health issues employer aware of and  I am being asked to attend for training without an attempt for it to be done remotely. 
I have been told will face disciplinary if I dont attendnfor 3 hours even though I have a doctors note stating my anxiety disorder '

Yes we are all different and perhaps some people can afford to never work in an office again and live off savings, or take early retirement, I suspect the majority though need to work to keep themselves from poverty . Believe me living with the stress of poverty, losing control over your housing and money is a terrible thing and in itself might cause a great deal more stress and anxiety. 

The current road map, which I accept is still guidelines, is that we should be back to near normal in June, that date is around 7 weeks away now. What happens then, does the anxiety magically go away or will people start having to seriously assess whether they can afford to leave work or whether they need to try and achieve some sort of acceptance that if they don't want to continue working, then there are now unemployed people who will be happy to take their jobs.