Employer forcing into office

SingleSue

justworriedabit said:

SingleSue said:

I have no option but to go into work (well once we are allowed to reopen) as our work cannot be done from home. I was a shielder, returned last July (2 weeks after we were allowed to open and 2 weeks before shielding guidelines were paused) and have no qualms about returning again next month. We're all counting down the days until we are allowed back.

Was I anxious last July? Oh goodness yes but I knew they had done everything possible to ensure our safety and we had all had to undergo Covid safe training before returning. It was one of the most nerve wracking things I have done walking in on my first morning but by the end of the shift, it felt like I had never been away...well apart from all the extra cleaning and sanitising of things!

Good for you.

However, you have completely missed the OP's point yet again. It is not only the OP that feels vulnerable but they have others that are vulnerable living with them, or did you chose to ignore that? Very importantly, as you said, you went back to work but the OP is being called back for a few hours, why put the OP and their loved ones at risk for a few hours. Please read the OP's posts again and then compare your experiences with theirs but not forgetting they are in a totally different situation to you.

And you appear to have missed the fact that I am indeed vulnerable, in fact, extremely clinically vulnerable. I also had my son who is clinically extremely vulnerable at home and the care of my parents who were vulnerable.

My experience? It was scary, I was anxious, I also have an anxiety disorder and OCD and I am in a customer facing role....which in fact poses more of a risk to a clinically vulnerable person than going into an office as a non vulnerable person for 3 hours.

wannabe_a_saver

MattMattMattUK said:

wannabe_a_saver said:

Nebulous2 said:

lisyloo said:

jimi_man said:

I can't think of much training that would be better (or even possible) virtually - no doubt there is some. I imagine a lot depends on what profession the person is though.

Just for info, I’ve done a whole load of training that is perfectly suited to online with videos, quizzes, games etc.
some examples

ethics
anti corruption & bribery
unconscious bias
positive thinking
data protection & Gdpr
quality systems
Cyber security (games to find the phishing)

most technology training e.g. programming languages, operating systems, databases has been going online for many years,

obviously practical things like first aid, fire training, brick laying etc. Need to be done in person so as you say very much depends.

Ive been going to work since may 2020 and the biggest issue by far has been public transport and not a COVID secure office. Behaviour of people in offices has been much better controlled than on buses and trains.

 I had assumed everyone was doing the same, but it may be that we are fortunate in having the necessary equipment on site. It wouldn't be so easy in community settings or finding someone in need of resuscitation in the street. 

In that situation you would do compression only CPR.  To be honest, that's been the advice for non-health professionals for some time anyway.  Good quality compressions and fast access to an AED is the best chance of saving a life. 

I refreshed my full first aid training last year and they still advise breath as well as compression, they current advice now seems to be to split the task between two people, alternating every minute or so, so that you do not get tired out. Having done proper chest compressions on a dummy, at the right level, for fifteen minutes I can understand why most people can not do them properly for a sustained period, it is surprisingly physically exerting. 

https://www.resus.org.uk/covid-19-resources/covid-19-resources-general-public/resuscitation-council-uk-statement-covid-19

15 minutes is a really long time for CPR, quality drops after just 2 minutes so you should be swapping frequently if you can. 

elsien

68ComebackSpecial said:

elsien said:

And the debate has done several full circles and ended up back where it started, courtesy of some posters appearing not to be taking account of others points of view, how situations can be managed to mitigate the risks, and restating points which have been covered in depth from varying points of view already.

I do hope the OP has been able to take away points that they may find useful, and have read the replies even if they've not logged back on. 

Well, @justworriedabit won't be back, at least using that name, to continue with her ranting indignation at others having the temerity to hold a view at variance with her own as she has been banned again. 

Thank heavens for small mercies. 

MattMattMattUK

wannabe_a_saver said:

MattMattMattUK said:

wannabe_a_saver said:

Nebulous2 said:

lisyloo said:

jimi_man said:

I can't think of much training that would be better (or even possible) virtually - no doubt there is some. I imagine a lot depends on what profession the person is though.

Just for info, I’ve done a whole load of training that is perfectly suited to online with videos, quizzes, games etc.
some examples

ethics
anti corruption & bribery
unconscious bias
positive thinking
data protection & Gdpr
quality systems
Cyber security (games to find the phishing)

most technology training e.g. programming languages, operating systems, databases has been going online for many years,

obviously practical things like first aid, fire training, brick laying etc. Need to be done in person so as you say very much depends.

Ive been going to work since may 2020 and the biggest issue by far has been public transport and not a COVID secure office. Behaviour of people in offices has been much better controlled than on buses and trains.

 I had assumed everyone was doing the same, but it may be that we are fortunate in having the necessary equipment on site. It wouldn't be so easy in community settings or finding someone in need of resuscitation in the street. 

In that situation you would do compression only CPR.  To be honest, that's been the advice for non-health professionals for some time anyway.  Good quality compressions and fast access to an AED is the best chance of saving a life. 

I refreshed my full first aid training last year and they still advise breath as well as compression, they current advice now seems to be to split the task between two people, alternating every minute or so, so that you do not get tired out. Having done proper chest compressions on a dummy, at the right level, for fifteen minutes I can understand why most people can not do them properly for a sustained period, it is surprisingly physically exerting. 

https://www.resus.org.uk/covid-19-resources/covid-19-resources-general-public/resuscitation-council-uk-statement-covid-19

15 minutes is a really long time for CPR, quality drops after just 2 minutes so you should be swapping frequently if you can. 

I have one of the face shields with a one way valve in my wallet (and the proper valved masks in my car, home and office) so I probably would not be that worried about getting infected by them unless they were foaming at the mouth. I agree though, if I ever have to do it for real I hope that I have assistance and that the ambulance turns up quickly. 

68ComebackSpecial

elsien said:

68ComebackSpecial said:

elsien said:

And the debate has done several full circles and ended up back where it started, courtesy of some posters appearing not to be taking account of others points of view, how situations can be managed to mitigate the risks, and restating points which have been covered in depth from varying points of view already.

I do hope the OP has been able to take away points that they may find useful, and have read the replies even if they've not logged back on. 

Well, @justworriedabit won't be back, at least using that name, to continue with her ranting indignation at others having the temerity to hold a view at variance with her own as she has been banned again. 

Thank heavens for small mercies. 

I won't miss her - after 6 years of board membership I was banned thanks to her previous incarnation. She took offence when I asked her if she was Hyacinth Bouquet/ Bucket IRL 

PixelPound

Jennsabs81 said:

I just dont want to go in, and put myself and a vulnerable family member at risk too when cant go in a house with family members but can be in a room with 4 people in office  

So if you were allowed to go in a house with family members, e.g. restrictions lifted, you'd be fine going into the office?

I read this as "if they won't allow me to go into a house with family members, then why is it safe to go in the office"

[Deleted User]

68ComebackSpecial said:

elsien said:

68ComebackSpecial said:

elsien said:

And the debate has done several full circles and ended up back where it started, courtesy of some posters appearing not to be taking account of others points of view, how situations can be managed to mitigate the risks, and restating points which have been covered in depth from varying points of view already.

I do hope the OP has been able to take away points that they may find useful, and have read the replies even if they've not logged back on. 

Well, @justworriedabit won't be back, at least using that name, to continue with her ranting indignation at others having the temerity to hold a view at variance with her own as she has been banned again. 

Thank heavens for small mercies. 

I won't miss her - after 6 years of board membership I was banned thanks to her previous incarnation. She took offence when I asked her if she was Hyacinth Bouquet/ Bucket IRL 

I also got banned for questioning why she was allowed to keep posting her nonsense!

[Deleted User]

delete 123 

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delete 123 

zzyzx1221

[DELETED USER] said:

SpiderLegs said:

[DELETED USER] said:

Thrugelmir said:

[DELETED USER] said:

Going forward WFH will be a major benefit and employers that don't offer it will be at a disadvantage. They need to think carefully about the offer they make to employees if they want to retain them.

Many variables to be considered from both the employees and employers perspective. Not least that many people cannot be trusted to work unsupervised. 

Employers who take that attitude will be losing a lot of good staff. Being told you can't work from home because the boss doesn't trust you to work is a pretty clear message.

Of course some people will want to come to the office, which is fine. Many will want to do a hybrid of both.

Employers will make judgements based on their own business models. Permanent WFH for many is a pipe dream. Very few employees are irreplaceable, especially those occupying generic, white collar roles.

By the same token very few jobs are irreplaceable.

If employers want to avoid the disruption of taking on new people, losing all that knowledge and experience of how their business works, those established working relationships, they need to consider employee work/life balance and conditions.

That is, of course, assuming that there are a lot of people kicking up a fuss about coming back in.  If there aren't then you really don't want to be one of the few that are.

booneruk

By the same token very few jobs are irreplaceable.

If employers want to avoid the disruption of taking on new people, losing all that knowledge and experience of how their business works, those established working relationships, they need to consider employee work/life balance and conditions.

Course they are free to consider it, but if that employee is being unreasonable then they can also consider letting them go.