Employer forcing into office

SpiderLegs

phillw said:

MattMattMattUK said:
When it comes to Covid, the vulnerable have been vaccinated, many have been fully vaccinated, the infection rate is very low and those who are healthy have almost zero risk from Covid. So the risk of someone who is healthy, catching, then suffering severe effects from the virus is incredibly low, low enough that an anxiety about Covid is irrational. 

If you're not allowed by law to hug someone from outside your household, then I'm not sure it's that irrational.

Another month or two and it's another story of course.

I'd like to know what training can be done face to face that would actually meet covid safe guidelines for the work place, which couldn't be performed easier on zoom.

If the employer is either skimping on covid safeness or going to extra effort to force people into the office, then I would argue on their reasonableness. The "effectively there is no pandemic" argument is not reasonable.

Whether it is easier on zoom is of no relevance.

68ComebackSpecial

phillw said:

MattMattMattUK said:
When it comes to Covid, the vulnerable have been vaccinated, many have been fully vaccinated, the infection rate is very low and those who are healthy have almost zero risk from Covid. So the risk of someone who is healthy, catching, then suffering severe effects from the virus is incredibly low, low enough that an anxiety about Covid is irrational. 

If you're not allowed by law to hug someone from outside your household, then I'm not sure it's that irrational.

I very much doubt that the OPs training will involve hugging either the trainer or their colleagues. As long as the employer has implemented adequate measures to safeguard their staff then they are complying with their responsibilities. Don't forget that many professions are providing services in close quarters perfectly lawfully and safely - medical professionals, dentists, vets, hairdressers, nail technicians are just some examples - and some have done so throughout.

wannabe_a_saver

phillw said:

soolin said:
This training might be important , without it the OP might not even be allowed to continue (I am freelance but without my mandatory courses and certification I would not be eligible to undertake my work for instance). 

 

A friend of mine was told to attend a first aid course at the end of 2020, during the course he was asked to perform a resuscitation on a dummy. He tried to get out of it but was told that he would fail the course.

He of course caught covid and was unable to work for a month and then had long covid for several months.

Just because someone tells you training is necessary, doesn't mean you should do it if you are vulnerable.

As for irrational fear, people are still dying from covid.

Why 'of course'?  The NHS has been running resucitation courses throughout the pandemic and I assure you it is not a given that all attendees catch Covid! 

The UK resuscitation council changed the guidelines so that 'mouth to mouth' or putting your face close to the person's mouth or nose is no longer recommended. 

wannabe_a_saver

MattMattMattUK said:

cannugec5 said:

I am astonished by how many people are so dismissive of a diagnosis of anxiety. Anxiety can be extremely debilitating. It is not irrational to be anxious about a real threat. If one has an existing anxiety disorder (and I’m not saying the OP has, I don’t know) a further threat will only exacerbate that. 

It is irrational to be anxious about a real threat if the assessment of the threat level and/or risk is wrong. I would be scared of an asteroid impacting the planet, if indeed one was on a collision course with the Earth, anxiety would be a pre-occupation with that impact event even when one was not occurring. The chances of it happening are very low, the risk of it happening with no warning is even less.

When it comes to Covid, the vulnerable have been vaccinated, many have been fully vaccinated, the infection rate is very low and those who are healthy have almost zero risk from Covid. So the risk of someone who is healthy, catching, then suffering severe effects from the virus is incredibly low, low enough that an anxiety about Covid is irrational. 

The fact that anxiety is irrational doesn't make it any less real or any less distressing.  Ask any OCD sufferer. 

Thrugelmir

wannabe_a_saver said:

MattMattMattUK said:

cannugec5 said:

I am astonished by how many people are so dismissive of a diagnosis of anxiety. Anxiety can be extremely debilitating. It is not irrational to be anxious about a real threat. If one has an existing anxiety disorder (and I’m not saying the OP has, I don’t know) a further threat will only exacerbate that. 

It is irrational to be anxious about a real threat if the assessment of the threat level and/or risk is wrong. I would be scared of an asteroid impacting the planet, if indeed one was on a collision course with the Earth, anxiety would be a pre-occupation with that impact event even when one was not occurring. The chances of it happening are very low, the risk of it happening with no warning is even less.

When it comes to Covid, the vulnerable have been vaccinated, many have been fully vaccinated, the infection rate is very low and those who are healthy have almost zero risk from Covid. So the risk of someone who is healthy, catching, then suffering severe effects from the virus is incredibly low, low enough that an anxiety about Covid is irrational. 

The fact that anxiety is irrational doesn't make it any less real or any less distressing.  Ask any OCD sufferer. 

If someone has a fear of working in close proximity to others in a confined area. Then no amount of adjustment can cater for the "disability".  In the same way that many people have a fear for heights. Which makes many roles/professions unsuitable for them. 

wannabe_a_saver

Thrugelmir said:

wannabe_a_saver said:

MattMattMattUK said:

cannugec5 said:

I am astonished by how many people are so dismissive of a diagnosis of anxiety. Anxiety can be extremely debilitating. It is not irrational to be anxious about a real threat. If one has an existing anxiety disorder (and I’m not saying the OP has, I don’t know) a further threat will only exacerbate that. 

It is irrational to be anxious about a real threat if the assessment of the threat level and/or risk is wrong. I would be scared of an asteroid impacting the planet, if indeed one was on a collision course with the Earth, anxiety would be a pre-occupation with that impact event even when one was not occurring. The chances of it happening are very low, the risk of it happening with no warning is even less.

When it comes to Covid, the vulnerable have been vaccinated, many have been fully vaccinated, the infection rate is very low and those who are healthy have almost zero risk from Covid. So the risk of someone who is healthy, catching, then suffering severe effects from the virus is incredibly low, low enough that an anxiety about Covid is irrational. 

The fact that anxiety is irrational doesn't make it any less real or any less distressing.  Ask any OCD sufferer. 

If someone has a fear of working in close proximity to others in a confined area. Then no amount of adjustment can cater for the "disability".  In the same way that many people have a fear for heights. Which makes many roles/professions unsuitable for them. 

Severe anxiety is, thankfully, very treatable.  

unforeseen

phillw said

I'd like to know what training can be done face to face that would actually meet covid safe guidelines for the work place, which couldn't be performed easier on zoom.

There are any number of courses, even for office workers, that require some sort of practical or collaborative actions.

E.G. Fire training. Every course I have done includes being able to demonstrate that you can safely activate and use a FAFA. 

JamoLew

phillw said:

MattMattMattUK said:
When it comes to Covid, the vulnerable have been vaccinated, many have been fully vaccinated, the infection rate is very low and those who are healthy have almost zero risk from Covid. So the risk of someone who is healthy, catching, then suffering severe effects from the virus is incredibly low, low enough that an anxiety about Covid is irrational. 

If you're not allowed by law to hug someone from outside your household, then I'm not sure it's that irrational.

Another month or two and it's another story of course.

I'd like to know what training can be done face to face that would actually meet covid safe guidelines for the work place, which couldn't be performed easier on zoom.

If the employer is either skimping on covid safeness or going to extra effort to force people into the office, then I would argue on their reasonableness. The "effectively there is no pandemic" argument is not reasonable.

We currently have 20+ students in our department undergoing hands-on training

They can't do the job without it and wouldn't get their qualification

We most definitely meet Covid safe guidelines 

sheramber

My DIL has been off work for 1 year with anxiety.  She  readily admits she knows it is irrational. But is no less real.

wannabe_a_saver. Severe anxiety is, thankfully, very treatable.  

My DIL and her GP  and her counsellor  would be very grateful if you would share this treatment.

justworriedabit

sheramber said:

My DIL has been off work for 1 year with anxiety.  She  readily admits she knows it is irrational. But is no less real.

wannabe_a_saver. Severe anxiety is, thankfully, very treatable.  

My DIL and her GP  and her counsellor  would be very grateful if you would share this treatment.

Sorry to hear about that.

This thread reminds me of the bad old days when some laughed at those with fears, etc and were very dismissive as they possibly had not experience it first hand via self, close family etc.

Being anxious is not great but if it was that easy to get rid of that, the world would be a much healthier place.

I too await to read the what the ground breaking treatment is.

I really fell for the OP as they came here for help but end up being told the company is right.

Anyone reading this, it is never easy to take on your employer and their little gangs but if you don't it will only get worse. The good news is most management and their followers will back down from their entrenched stance once you you show them you know your rights and are more than willing to be flexible and explain why now is not the right time and supply them with evidenece requested.

Take care.