Employer forcing into office

noitsnotme

How is @sweetsand posting the same old stuff again under a new account?  The forum rules clearly state “We can refuse permission to post without giving a reason and the ban applies to any/all user accounts used by or in the name of that person.”

Thrugelmir

justworriedabit said:

MattMattMattUK said:

justworriedabit said:

soolin said:

justworriedabit said:

OP
Consult your Union, line manager, HR and your rights and their duty of care towards you nd getting a supporting letter from your gp if requested and an occupational  health assessment re working from the office.
Some of the items posted here are wrong on every level as you have many rights as stated above by me.

Please be careful with advice that might be seen to be promoting action that could potentially lose someone their job. Many of us are anxious, or know of someone who is anxious about the current situation, reinforcing that is not necessarily helpful. Companies must start trying to get back to normal , many cannot sustain the drop in income they have seen for the last year or more, jobs are already at risk due to the downturn in the economy . 

This training might be important , without it the OP might not even be allowed to continue (I am freelance but without my mandatory courses and certification I would not be eligible to undertake my work for instance). 

By all means OP ask for details of their COVID measures, that isn’t unreasonable , but be careful of an outright refusal to undertake training that might set you apart from your colleagues. 

Looks like you re contradicting yourself here. You want them to seek/ask about Covid measure but nothing else? Please be careful when telling others what to do as most people will read, hear and consider for themselves what they want to and what they don't want to do.
We are humans ie not all the same and what is good for one is not good for the other.

They are refusing to go into the office because essentially they have an irrational fear of Covid. Nothing else is really relevant. Soolin is a Board Guide so more than aware of how the forum works. 

justworriedabit said:

"Training" may be "important" but reading the OP, its going to the training atm is a big deal for the OP and there is no reason why the OP should not be given a session at a later date and could easily be update/supplied with info with this sessions training/handouts/summary.

Training may or may not be important, that is irrelevant, it is entirely reasonable for the employer to ask the employee to attend work, refusing to do so is a breach of contract. As part of the employees job the training can be required at any time in line with their employment contract, so in essence during their contracted hours, or other contract permitted periods. The employer will have already made the decision that handouts are not adequate, hence the in person training being required.

justworriedabit said:
Dear OP, I forgot to add, seek guidance in confidence without even giving out your name from ACAS. I've used them as have some people I know and for us, it was 10/10. They may not tell you what you want to hear every time but they know their stuff and are there to help and good luck I hope it goes well for you.

ACAS will be able to give advice, it will be similar to what they have received on here, go into work. 

justworriedabit said:

Depending on the trianing type/needs/etc it is not unreasonable for some to do this at another date unless they can demonstrate

It is entirely unreasonable not to do it when requested.

If people are unwilling to do the job they are contracted to do then it is entirely reasonable of their employer to terminate their employment and now is most certainly not the time to be a difficult employee, or to make oneself unemployed. 

The best advice for the OP would be to find a therapist to deal with their irrational fears and move forward by resolving the real issue, rather than attempting to skirt around it. 

OP is not refusing to do their job, they are requesting to do it from home or at another date.

The employee is contracted to perform their role or duties at the location specified in their contract of employment. Employers are under no obligation to pander to personal preferences. The pandemic will have focused employers minds as to which employees are key to the business, and those who are dispensable. There's plenty of real work to be getting on with. Without the burden of those who are being obstructive. The employee has the right to resign. Which is normally the case when the employee becomes disenchanted with their job. There's plenty of people looking for paid employment. Sensible to pick ones battles wisely. 

phillw

Thrugelmir said:
Employers are under no obligation to pander to personal preferences.

https://www.acas.org.uk/absence-from-work/fit-notes-and-proof-of-sickness

If the employee has a disability, by law the employer must consider making reasonable adjustments to help them return to work and carry out their job.

As there is still a pandemic on, then it does seem like they are being unreasonable.

acas or citizens advice would be a good start.

phillw

soolin said:
This training might be important , without it the OP might not even be allowed to continue (I am freelance but without my mandatory courses and certification I would not be eligible to undertake my work for instance). 

 

A friend of mine was told to attend a first aid course at the end of 2020, during the course he was asked to perform a resuscitation on a dummy. He tried to get out of it but was told that he would fail the course.

He of course caught covid and was unable to work for a month and then had long covid for several months.

Just because someone tells you training is necessary, doesn't mean you should do it if you are vulnerable.

As for irrational fear, people are still dying from covid.

soolin

“He of course caught covid and was unable to work for a month and then had long covid for several months.”

How terribly unlucky, and how unusual to be able to pinpoint the exact moment they were infected,I’m sure the tabloids would love that story! 

As other replies have suggested though no one can be forced to work. If your friend could see that COVID measures were not being adhered to with the dummy then they would have been right to refuse and reported the training organiser. Everyone also has the right to refuse to work or refuse to do training to enable them to work, and look into alternative incomes. 

As for people dying, people are also dying due to lengthening hospital waiting lists due to less appointments being made, or from mental health conditions caused by lockdown and anxiety. At some point the balance needs to be addressed. Under the current suggested lockdown pathway the plan is that we will be almost back to normal in less than 2 months now anyway. 

poppy12345

phillw said:

soolin said:
This training might be important , without it the OP might not even be allowed to continue (I am freelance but without my mandatory courses and certification I would not be eligible to undertake my work for instance). 

 

A friend of mine was told to attend a first aid course at the end of 2020, during the course he was asked to perform a resuscitation on a dummy. He tried to get out of it but was told that he would fail the course.

He of course caught covid and was unable to work for a month and then had long covid for several months.

Really?  We are only in the 4th month of year so your maths doesn't add up...

cannugec5

I am astonished by how many people are so dismissive of a diagnosis of anxiety. Anxiety can be extremely debilitating. It is not irrational to be anxious about a real threat. If one has an existing anxiety disorder (and I’m not saying the OP has, I don’t know) a further threat will only exacerbate that. 

Some employers do enjoy using bully tactics, and like to see the vulnerable squirm. I quit my job (long before COVID) because of a culture of bullying within the system. My own health condition was used as a stick to beat me with. In hindsight I should have fought back, but the risks were just not worth it. Since I left my employer has been the focus of a major investigation and has been reported in the media because of systematic bullying. 

So yes, I can imagine an employer encouraging one into work for a ‘training session’ that really isn’t all that important. I can imagine an employer that is simply trying to exert control and show domination when that has been ripped from them by a government who insisted in home working. 

Of course. The OP has to make their own judgement, with appropriate advice as to whether the risk of losing their job is more or less important than challenging the employer. 

I wish them well. It really is not an easy situation to be in. 

elsien

Also wondering how they are so sure (without knowing anything about the employer or the training) that it can be done at a later date, and that updates etc can be so easily supplied. 

JCS1

phillw said:

Thrugelmir said:
Employers are under no obligation to pander to personal preferences.

https://www.acas.org.uk/absence-from-work/fit-notes-and-proof-of-sickness

If the employee has a disability, by law the employer must consider making reasonable adjustments to help them return to work and carry out their job.

As there is still a pandemic on, then it does seem like they are being unreasonable.

acas or citizens advice would be a good start.

Has it been decided that the OP's health condition is considered a disability under the equality act?

JamoLew

Op allegedly resigned from a previous job in July 2020

Less than 2 years service

Either something changed there or it will be very easy for the employer to end their employment if they are not compliant with reasonable requests and therefore possibly their contract

The definition of "reasonable" varies and judging by the replies on here (unless the OP is withholding additional information) it would seem to me that the employer IS being reasonable with their request

The OP isn't under a Doctors note/fit note therefore they are deemed to be fit for work

Shielding is no longer "a thing"

There don't seem to be a whole lot of reasonable excuses to not attend based on the limited info provided

Can I suggest for people who want to see the answers they want or to adopt a "there there, it will all be fine" stance -- Mumsnet is a good place to start