Employer forcing into office

soolin

justworriedabit said:

OP
Consult your Union, line manager, HR and your rights and their duty of care towards you nd getting a supporting letter from your gp if requested and an occupational  health assessment re working from the office.
Some of the items posted here are wrong on every level as you have many rights as stated above by me.

Please be careful with advice that might be seen to be promoting action that could potentially lose someone their job. Many of us are anxious, or know of someone who is anxious about the current situation, reinforcing that is not necessarily helpful. Companies must start trying to get back to normal , many cannot sustain the drop in income they have seen for the last year or more, jobs are already at risk due to the downturn in the economy . 

This training might be important , without it the OP might not even be allowed to continue (I am freelance but without my mandatory courses and certification I would not be eligible to undertake my work for instance). 

By all means OP ask for details of their COVID measures, that isn’t unreasonable , but be careful of an outright refusal to undertake training that might set you apart from your colleagues. 

poppy12345

It's just for 3 hours. If you're unable to work because of a health condition then you will need a fit note from your GP and can then claim SSP at least from your employer for 28 weeks. Working from home can't continue forever.

justworriedabit

soolin said:

justworriedabit said:

OP
Consult your Union, line manager, HR and your rights and their duty of care towards you nd getting a supporting letter from your gp if requested and an occupational  health assessment re working from the office.
Some of the items posted here are wrong on every level as you have many rights as stated above by me.

Please be careful with advice that might be seen to be promoting action that could potentially lose someone their job. Many of us are anxious, or know of someone who is anxious about the current situation, reinforcing that is not necessarily helpful. Companies must start trying to get back to normal , many cannot sustain the drop in income they have seen for the last year or more, jobs are already at risk due to the downturn in the economy . 

This training might be important , without it the OP might not even be allowed to continue (I am freelance but without my mandatory courses and certification I would not be eligible to undertake my work for instance). 

By all means OP ask for details of their COVID measures, that isn’t unreasonable , but be careful of an outright refusal to undertake training that might set you apart from your colleagues. 

Looks like you re contradicting yourself here. You want them to seek/ask about Covid measure but nothing else? Please be careful when telling others what to do as most people will read, hear and consider for themselves what they want to and what they don't want to do.
We are humans ie not all the same and what is good for one is not good for the other.

"Training" may be "important" but reading the OP, its going to the training atm is a big deal for the OP and there is no reason why the OP should not be given a session at a later date and could easily be update/supplied with info with this sessions training/handouts/summary.

Dear OP, I forgot to add, seek guidance in confidence without even giving out your name from ACAS. I've used them as have some people I know and for us, it was 10/10. They may not tell you what you want to hear every time but they know their stuff and are there to help and good luck I hope it goes well for you.

Depending on the trianing type/needs/etc it is not unreasonable for some to do this at another date unless they can demonstrate

OP, did you start your new job late last year as per one of your or are you at the same place as you talked about "resignation." - Either way, good luck.

HTH

justworriedabit

poppy12345 said:

It's just for 3 hours. If you're unable to work because of a health condition then you will need a fit note from your GP and can then claim SSP at least from your employer for 28 weeks. Working from home can't continue forever.

Please be careful re SSP and making assumptions as its a complex thing and crtiera attached to it over  and I suggest you and others interested read the link below.

https://www.gov.uk/statutory-sick-pay/eligibility#:~:text=To qualify for Statutory Sick,(including non-working days)

HTH

soolin

justworriedabit said:

soolin said:

justworriedabit said:

OP
Consult your Union, line manager, HR and your rights and their duty of care towards you nd getting a supporting letter from your gp if requested and an occupational  health assessment re working from the office.
Some of the items posted here are wrong on every level as you have many rights as stated above by me.

Please be careful with advice that might be seen to be promoting action that could potentially lose someone their job. Many of us are anxious, or know of someone who is anxious about the current situation, reinforcing that is not necessarily helpful. Companies must start trying to get back to normal , many cannot sustain the drop in income they have seen for the last year or more, jobs are already at risk due to the downturn in the economy . 

This training might be important , without it the OP might not even be allowed to continue (I am freelance but without my mandatory courses and certification I would not be eligible to undertake my work for instance). 

By all means OP ask for details of their COVID measures, that isn’t unreasonable , but be careful of an outright refusal to undertake training that might set you apart from your colleagues. 

Looks like you re contradicting yourself here. You want them to seek/ask about Covid measure but nothing else? Please be careful when telling others what to do as most people will read, hear and consider for themselves what they want to and what they don't want to do.
We are humans ie not all the same and what is good for one is not good for the other.

"Training" may be "important" but reading the OP, its going to the training atm is a big deal for the OP and there is no reason why the OP should not be given a session at a later date and could easily be update/supplied with info with this sessions training/handouts/summary.

Dear OP, I forgot to add, seek guidance in confidence without even giving out your name from ACAS. I've used them as have some people I know and for us, it was 10/10. They may not tell you what you want to hear every time but they know their stuff and are there to help and good luck I hope it goes well for you.

Depending on the trianing type/needs/etc it is not unreasonable for some to do this at another date unless they can demonstrate

OP, did you start your new job late last year as per one of your or are you at the same place as you talked about "resignation." - Either way, good luck.

HTH

I’m sorry but are you suggesting getting HR and unions involved and being too afraid to go into work is the same as merely enquiring what COVID measures they have out in place ?

I do not disagree with you at all that it is not up to us to tell the OP what to do. However, they need to be reminded that jobs are important in this economy and they might need to give serious thought about how to handle this. I’m sure no one with anxiety wants to start worrying about their future employment and money concerns. 

Posters have given some really helpful advice including approaching their GP which I hope the OP takes on board. 

MattMattMattUK

justworriedabit said:

soolin said:

justworriedabit said:

OP
Consult your Union, line manager, HR and your rights and their duty of care towards you nd getting a supporting letter from your gp if requested and an occupational  health assessment re working from the office.
Some of the items posted here are wrong on every level as you have many rights as stated above by me.

Please be careful with advice that might be seen to be promoting action that could potentially lose someone their job. Many of us are anxious, or know of someone who is anxious about the current situation, reinforcing that is not necessarily helpful. Companies must start trying to get back to normal , many cannot sustain the drop in income they have seen for the last year or more, jobs are already at risk due to the downturn in the economy . 

This training might be important , without it the OP might not even be allowed to continue (I am freelance but without my mandatory courses and certification I would not be eligible to undertake my work for instance). 

By all means OP ask for details of their COVID measures, that isn’t unreasonable , but be careful of an outright refusal to undertake training that might set you apart from your colleagues. 

Looks like you re contradicting yourself here. You want them to seek/ask about Covid measure but nothing else? Please be careful when telling others what to do as most people will read, hear and consider for themselves what they want to and what they don't want to do.
We are humans ie not all the same and what is good for one is not good for the other.

They are refusing to go into the office because essentially they have an irrational fear of Covid. Nothing else is really relevant. Soolin is a Board Guide so more than aware of how the forum works. 

justworriedabit said:

"Training" may be "important" but reading the OP, its going to the training atm is a big deal for the OP and there is no reason why the OP should not be given a session at a later date and could easily be update/supplied with info with this sessions training/handouts/summary.

Training may or may not be important, that is irrelevant, it is entirely reasonable for the employer to ask the employee to attend work, refusing to do so is a breach of contract. As part of the employees job the training can be required at any time in line with their employment contract, so in essence during their contracted hours, or other contract permitted periods. The employer will have already made the decision that handouts are not adequate, hence the in person training being required.

justworriedabit said:
Dear OP, I forgot to add, seek guidance in confidence without even giving out your name from ACAS. I've used them as have some people I know and for us, it was 10/10. They may not tell you what you want to hear every time but they know their stuff and are there to help and good luck I hope it goes well for you.

ACAS will be able to give advice, it will be similar to what they have received on here, go into work. 

justworriedabit said:

Depending on the trianing type/needs/etc it is not unreasonable for some to do this at another date unless they can demonstrate

It is entirely unreasonable not to do it when requested.

If people are unwilling to do the job they are contracted to do then it is entirely reasonable of their employer to terminate their employment and now is most certainly not the time to be a difficult employee, or to make oneself unemployed. 

The best advice for the OP would be to find a therapist to deal with their irrational fears and move forward by resolving the real issue, rather than attempting to skirt around it. 

poppy12345

justworriedabit said:

poppy12345 said:

It's just for 3 hours. If you're unable to work because of a health condition then you will need a fit note from your GP and can then claim SSP at least from your employer for 28 weeks. Working from home can't continue forever.

Please be careful re SSP and making assumptions as its a complex thing and crtiera attached to it over  and I suggest you and others interested read the link below.

https://www.gov.uk/statutory-sick-pay/eligibility#:~:text=To qualify for Statutory Sick,(including non-working days)

HTH

Then if SSP can't be claimed then they need to look at claiming benefits. You are making a mountain here that isn't needed. The OP has been asked to go into the office for just 3 hours, if they cant do this then a fit note should be considered, otherwise they risk their job.

Edit to add, i'm not sure exactly what's complex about SSP.

justworriedabit

soolin said:

justworriedabit said:

soolin said:

justworriedabit said:

OP
Consult your Union, line manager, HR and your rights and their duty of care towards you nd getting a supporting letter from your gp if requested and an occupational  health assessment re working from the office.
Some of the items posted here are wrong on every level as you have many rights as stated above by me.

Please be careful with advice that might be seen to be promoting action that could potentially lose someone their job. Many of us are anxious, or know of someone who is anxious about the current situation, reinforcing that is not necessarily helpful. Companies must start trying to get back to normal , many cannot sustain the drop in income they have seen for the last year or more, jobs are already at risk due to the downturn in the economy . 

This training might be important , without it the OP might not even be allowed to continue (I am freelance but without my mandatory courses and certification I would not be eligible to undertake my work for instance). 

By all means OP ask for details of their COVID measures, that isn’t unreasonable , but be careful of an outright refusal to undertake training that might set you apart from your colleagues. 

Looks like you re contradicting yourself here. You want them to seek/ask about Covid measure but nothing else? Please be careful when telling others what to do as most people will read, hear and consider for themselves what they want to and what they don't want to do.
We are humans ie not all the same and what is good for one is not good for the other.

"Training" may be "important" but reading the OP, its going to the training atm is a big deal for the OP and there is no reason why the OP should not be given a session at a later date and could easily be update/supplied with info with this sessions training/handouts/summary.

Dear OP, I forgot to add, seek guidance in confidence without even giving out your name from ACAS. I've used them as have some people I know and for us, it was 10/10. They may not tell you what you want to hear every time but they know their stuff and are there to help and good luck I hope it goes well for you.

Depending on the trianing type/needs/etc it is not unreasonable for some to do this at another date unless they can demonstrate

OP, did you start your new job late last year as per one of your or are you at the same place as you talked about "resignation." - Either way, good luck.

HTH

I’m sorry but are you suggesting getting HR and unions involved and being too afraid to go into work is the same as merely enquiring what COVID measures they have out in place ?

I do not disagree with you at all that it is not up to us to tell the OP what to do. However, they need to be reminded that jobs are important in this economy and they might need to give serious thought about how to handle this. I’m sure no one with anxiety wants to start worrying about their future employment and money concerns. 

Posters have given some really helpful advice including approaching their GP which I hope the OP takes on board. 

Thank you for your clarification and the bottom line is we want to help the OP
The OP as you may now be aware was going to resign last year and you can look up their thread if you wish as mentioned in my previous post.

Yes, I am suggesting as per your first para as you do not really know what the situation is and if they have done as per my post.

Employers have a duty of care and it is reasonable to assume that not every training session even if it mandatory has to be done on an exact date as the majority of other staff and the employer needs to demonstrated they have investigated all reasonable options to safeguard the well being of their staff.

You may trust  all employers/managers/etc, but really sorry as I don't"

You may think/believe that other  "posters have given really... that is your prerogative and mine to disagree and add a post where those reading are able to forum their own judgement.

When someone is "anxious" as you put it the last thing they want is being told to do what they don't want to do but if it comes from an independent body for example like ACAS as per my post, it is at times and in my experience easier to digest.


You are hoping the GP apprach may help, I agree but it never hurts to consult others as per my post as a gp letter advice in most cases will not carry much weight unless others as per my post are consulted on/off the record and with with one or more of them.

You are free to disagree but I know where I'm coming from as I've had a lot of first hand personal expereince with dealing with demanding employers and staff that support management.

justworriedabit

poppy12345 said:

justworriedabit said:

poppy12345 said:

It's just for 3 hours. If you're unable to work because of a health condition then you will need a fit note from your GP and can then claim SSP at least from your employer for 28 weeks. Working from home can't continue forever.

Please be careful re SSP and making assumptions as its a complex thing and crtiera attached to it over  and I suggest you and others interested read the link below.

https://www.gov.uk/statutory-sick-pay/eligibility#:~:text=To qualify for Statutory Sick,(including non-working days)

HTH

Edit to add, i'm not sure exactly what's complex about SSP.

you said op entitled to 28 weeks of SSP. You made many assumptions that they'd been working for an x amount of time and had not already claimed for a x amount of times over three years is the period but check the link as it is a number of years. I've provided the link that is simple to follow and accurate re ssp. So it is not as easy as saying OP or anyone is entitled to 28 weeks of ssp but is more accurate as I have stated.

justworriedabit

MattMattMattUK said:

justworriedabit said:

soolin said:

justworriedabit said:

OP
Consult your Union, line manager, HR and your rights and their duty of care towards you nd getting a supporting letter from your gp if requested and an occupational  health assessment re working from the office.
Some of the items posted here are wrong on every level as you have many rights as stated above by me.

Please be careful with advice that might be seen to be promoting action that could potentially lose someone their job. Many of us are anxious, or know of someone who is anxious about the current situation, reinforcing that is not necessarily helpful. Companies must start trying to get back to normal , many cannot sustain the drop in income they have seen for the last year or more, jobs are already at risk due to the downturn in the economy . 

This training might be important , without it the OP might not even be allowed to continue (I am freelance but without my mandatory courses and certification I would not be eligible to undertake my work for instance). 

By all means OP ask for details of their COVID measures, that isn’t unreasonable , but be careful of an outright refusal to undertake training that might set you apart from your colleagues. 

Looks like you re contradicting yourself here. You want them to seek/ask about Covid measure but nothing else? Please be careful when telling others what to do as most people will read, hear and consider for themselves what they want to and what they don't want to do.
We are humans ie not all the same and what is good for one is not good for the other.

They are refusing to go into the office because essentially they have an irrational fear of Covid. Nothing else is really relevant. Soolin is a Board Guide so more than aware of how the forum works. 

justworriedabit said:

"Training" may be "important" but reading the OP, its going to the training atm is a big deal for the OP and there is no reason why the OP should not be given a session at a later date and could easily be update/supplied with info with this sessions training/handouts/summary.

Training may or may not be important, that is irrelevant, it is entirely reasonable for the employer to ask the employee to attend work, refusing to do so is a breach of contract. As part of the employees job the training can be required at any time in line with their employment contract, so in essence during their contracted hours, or other contract permitted periods. The employer will have already made the decision that handouts are not adequate, hence the in person training being required.

justworriedabit said:
Dear OP, I forgot to add, seek guidance in confidence without even giving out your name from ACAS. I've used them as have some people I know and for us, it was 10/10. They may not tell you what you want to hear every time but they know their stuff and are there to help and good luck I hope it goes well for you.

ACAS will be able to give advice, it will be similar to what they have received on here, go into work. 

justworriedabit said:

Depending on the trianing type/needs/etc it is not unreasonable for some to do this at another date unless they can demonstrate

It is entirely unreasonable not to do it when requested.

If people are unwilling to do the job they are contracted to do then it is entirely reasonable of their employer to terminate their employment and now is most certainly not the time to be a difficult employee, or to make oneself unemployed. 

The best advice for the OP would be to find a therapist to deal with their irrational fears and move forward by resolving the real issue, rather than attempting to skirt around it. 

Good evening

I've covered everyhting and I'm happy with that and you can disagree as that is your perogative.

I dont know how to mulit post like you but the last point I've highlighted, you are so wrong on every level.

OP is not refusing to do their job, they are requesting to do it from home or at another date.

Employers has a duty of care towards all staff inc OP

Everyone is different

Employers will need to demo they have made efforts to help OP and if they go down my route if not already done so, these others inc ACAS will ensure the OP rights are met and the employees is not being unreasonable.

A middle man lie ACAS often is helpful in many cases and I've, my co-workers have used them years ago when I allowed myself to be pushed around by those that thought they knew it all. Since the day I came across a good union rep, HR staff that were prepared to back what was right as well as a manager and with the help of ACAS and co-workers sharing my plight, I've never looked back.

Even at one of my previous employments when i was younger and did not have the assertiveness, willpower, the guts to stand up to a bullying management gang supported by a gang chums that drove people into neervous breakdowns, leaving and/or being sacked, I through support of two close co-workers found out that people at the top in the dept and their cronies were bullying not just me covertly but willfully undermining my good name/characters as well as to others. I was fobbed off when I was off sick for a few days and treated like a child when others took time off sick as it suited them -  re training I had A/L booked before this mandatory training came up and i was told rudely by my manager i'd had to can my A/L as I told them i was not going on hols away but spending time with OH but hoping to see family - I went to the unions, I went to HR, I went to another manager that liked me and I consulted my OH and ACAS and guess what, armed with the info, they set another training date for me.


Yes, employer has duty of care and yes, so does an employee but one  is feeling down and out, sadly some near the top of the food chain in various departments/works and their cronies will make your life miserable unless you make a stand.  I only made stands and even now I do butt I do my research, keep it politem offer flexibility and never lost a cause push come to shove.

I do not need thumbs up on my posts as IRL co=workers from my dept and others will often turn to advice from me and I always remind them that what they do is at their own risk and its easier said than done and when to let it slip even though it may hurt, but plan your battles fully armed and often those that are not appearing to be flexible become flexible.


btw - your are making a massive assumption re OP and their "irrational fear"  -  IMO, anyones "fear" is NEVER "irrational." to them.