Long term cohabitation dilemma

wannabe_a_saver

Viking_warrior said:

wannabe_a_saver said:

This man has got himself a great little setup! 

He's got someone living in his house who supplements his bills to less than half what they would be otherwise, pays towards maintenance and home improvements and also a nice bit of cash on top just for the privilege of living there and joy of joys this person also cooks, cleans and sleeps with him! 

Why would he give that up?  Why would you ever accept being that person who he keeps around for selfish reasons not because he cares about you?

Probably because I want to believe he does love me and care for me. I've not experienced anything different and scared to let go in case I cant get better. All very good questions. It's like a frog boiling in a pot. You dont know your boiling to death until you can no longer jump out 

You can easily get better, living independently and being in control of your own life would be far far better!

ErinGoBrath

AnotherJoe said:

Viking_warrior said:

rachel230 said:

. I pay gas and electric, half house insurance, all groceries, contribute to improvements around a third when I can. He pays council tax, tv license, water and broadband half house insurance and two thirds home improvements. I also pay rent 

I note the clever division of the bills. The biggest outlay monthly has to be food which has been deemed your responsibility (of course!) TV license, water and broadband are minimal by comparison. If you tot up what you each pay in bills monthly, I'm sure you will be paying out far more than him.
Also, why on earth are you paying for improvements/repairs on a house that you have been categorically told (by him) is not yours. As someone further up said, even a lodger has a far better deal than you - a long term * partner *.
As for "I'm leaving you the house in my Will".. means absolutely zero! He can change his Will any moment! Try standing up to him over this financial abuse and see how long you remain in his Will for!

I have tried to stand up a number of times and often the resulting conflict ends with him saying he doesn't need my stress in his life and he will cut me out of his will. He has never actually done that. And in all honesty I don't care if he does....
 I'm not after his assets, I simply want what I contribute to mean something, be acknowledged and to find a way to increase my assets so I can join him in our home ownership in future.
Ps..  The rationale for me supporting improvements is that I'm benefitting from them ito a nicer living environment.  

In the immortal words of the Rolling Stones "You can't always get what you want"

Please, for your own sake, see if you can take that on board and then perhaps it will be clear to you what to do.

More like The Animals - "We Gotta Get Out Of This Place"

[Deleted User]

CookieMonster said:

There are multiple indicators for a clinical diagnosis of Narcissism.
Most people are called this based on 1 or 2 signs - which is incorrect.

Some people are just a-holes.

First Google search reply.

Here is a list of 9 Traits of a Narcissist & Behaviour to Watch For.

• Lack of Empathy. A lack of empathy may be the key defining characteristic of a narcissistic person. ...
• Manipulative. ...
• Projection. ...
• Emotionally Cold. ...
• Gaslighting. ...
• Never Takes Responsibility. ...
• Controlling. ...
• Grandiose.

9 Traits of a Narcissist & Behaviour to Watch For | Man of Many

A number of individuals here have assigned motives based on a small amount of information from one side of the equation, and are demonising the partner. As they are free to do. Often based on their own experience.

A number of those are encouraging the OP to escape this abusive relationship (I'm paraphrasing).

As pointed out by a previous poster; we all have our biases.
Often based on experience, they are usually/often a good thing.

Where some see an abuser, or coercive control, I see a man who has set boundaries on his relationship - from the very start.
For whatever reason (although previous experience in relationships is always a good one, this very thing appears to be the basis of some of the advice given by others here) he has laid out the terms of their relationship.
Which the OP has decided was acceptable at that time.

This may have mutated into a form of abuse - VW is best-placed to judge that - over the past decade and a half.

These days almost everything can be abuse - emotional, financial, etc...

You can choose to see it as control, because it is:
The partner is controlling his environment to avoid a repeat of past mistake(s) where someone who said she cared turned out to not care at all (poetic licence here from me, but since it cost him a house I'm sure he's been stung before) and it cost him time, money and probably a lot of stress as he uses that word in his responses.

That doesn't make it abuse of Viking Warrior.

VW is free to leave at any time, or to communicate (if possible) with her partner in order to change things (see my previous post).

I'm trying desperately NOT to be an armchair psychologist, as I'm not qualified, but I would like to posit (as previously) an alternate viewpoint to some of the responses above.

As always, i welcome debate in PM, to avoid going too far off topic on the thread.

The partner has managed to overcome losing a house to gaining two, and probably has an okay pension and salary (my assumptions).
He's being defensive in their communication based on having lost once already. Understandably.
And maybe he's really poor at handling stress or communicating in a relationship.
That doesn't make him a <insert current assessment of the bad person>.

I believe that VW has had a better 15 years (emotionally) with the partner than she would have on her own, and conversely VW has possibly has had a worse 15 years than she could have had with another partner.

Financially, that's a different kettle of fish and I do also wonder at some of the costs being paid by VW in the long term.

Financial items are now important, and there are choices to be made here, yes.

As before, I would suggest that you approach the subject with your partner in such a way that you can communicate and get him to understand your side of things, and what you want and need.

As before VW, good luck - whatever you decide to do here.

Just to clarify, in sharing my experience, I'm not suggesting OP's partner is a narcissist (nor my own ex-partner). I don't have the credentials to make such a diagnosis, nor any knowledge of him to call him an A-hole - there are two sides to every story and we have only had one. 

All we can really do is surmise, based on what the OP has told us and undoubtedly, there is much about the relationship we are not aware of. Ultimately, it is up to OP to decide how to proceed and all the goading in the world probably isn't going to make someone leave if they don't really want to. As you say, OP communicating her needs to her partner would be good, if this is at all possible. 

getmore4less

Viking_warrior said:

wannabe_a_saver said:

This man has got himself a great little setup! 

He's got someone living in his house who supplements his bills to less than half what they would be otherwise, pays towards maintenance and home improvements and also a nice bit of cash on top just for the privilege of living there and joy of joys this person also cooks, cleans and sleeps with him! 

Why would he give that up?  Why would you ever accept being that person who he keeps around for selfish reasons not because he cares about you?

Probably because I want to believe he does love me and care for me. I've not experienced anything different and scared to let go in case I cant get better. All very good questions. It's like a frog boiling in a pot. You dont know your boiling to death until you can no longer jump out 

He may love you but certainly is not caring for you.

the bigger picture of assets and sharing is not the real problem


Leaving you financially drained on a day to day is a very good way of controlling someone as they can't do anything independently and makes if very hard to get out.

Other than getting to live in this nice house for all your money what happens when you want to do something on your own that costs you money how can you afford it?


Who pays for things like going out for drinks, meals, holidays.

Do you have to uplift to his affordability levels  leaving you short.


Next time he want to improver the place say you are perfectly happy with it the way you are if you want to improve it again you pay for it.


where there is an imbalance the starting point is what the lowest can afford sensibly.

eg. if one person can afford a £500 holiday that what they put into the pot, its a £500pp holiday, if the other wants a £1000pp holiday they have to cough up £1500 if they want to be with you on that holiday.


how long from the last relationship did you jump into this one.

I know someone that struggles with the being on their own it has resulted in some seriously bad choices.

Its actually not that bad when you put the effort into meeting people.

leonj

You are paying way too much for a lodger, do you really see yourself paying all this money for the rest of your life? You need to get help

getmore4less

Coming from a different angle.

You pay for the food?

Who decides what food that is?


Cut back the budget, either quickly or by stealth.

Things he likes don't get bought, meals get simpler, easier to cook and cheaper.

You have treat on the savings.


Another thing can you have guests stay over for more than just a night(or even have guests?)

There are bubble issues but after 15y it should be clear where you stand


Got a family member or friend get them over for a week(within the covid rules)

Jeepers_Creepers

CookieMonster said:

There are multiple indicators for a clinical diagnosis of Narcissism.
Most people are called this based on 1 or 2 signs - which is incorrect.

Some people are just a-holes.

Absolutely, CM.

And I'm not performing a labelled clinical diagnosis on this person either.

There are wide ranges of NPD and other similar conditions, from - as I mentioned - Trump who is waaay off the scale and with a few other conditions tucked into his tight waist belt to boot, to probably half the population who will exhibit some of these characteristics to some extent (and very possibly all of us to a certain 'normal' degree).

Labels and diagnoses aside, VW clearly knows something is amiss, and certain elements of her description sound loud warning bells.

This is a 15-year relationship, and her partner is seemingly ok with stating "I don't want hassle - keep on about this and you are out of my will". (A will that could very easily be worthless anyway as it could have been superseded at any time). It isn't even that he uses this as a threat, but that he clearly believes it is a valid threat to use. Love? Care? Compassion?

A partner who blames previous partners for his caution (it's never their fault...)

So, he lost a house due to failed marriage?! Wow, there should be some immunity for this - poor guy. This is happening, countless times, both ways, as we type.

Yes, it takes two, and if some folk are genuinely happy or content with their lot, that's ok; if a take-take relationship suits them both (because they are both actually the same), that's fine. It usually isn't a balanced relationship, tho', and one person is often the genuine victim, who hopes and expects things to change - that one day they will have 'proved' their worth with loyalty, and the controller wakes up one morning and realises just how lucky they are.

Narc or not, based on what VW has described, I don't believe this person is going to change, ever. So VW either accepts the S-Q or does not.

Viking_warrior

I do decide food but he is particular about quality of meals and I do buy alcohol too ... I have up drinking a year ago as had lots of self loathing issues and doubts about arguments etc. 
In reality I agree with so many posters. On both sides if argument. 

I did willingly sign agreements but now in hindsight this was done in spirit of me not wanting to take any if the things hed worked for... not to lose anything I'd paid for in event of a split. 

In terms of our dynamic hes always been very straight and honest. He has boundaries and ways he wants to live and if I dont like them, I can leave. He will have a moment on almost a monthly basis where I've done something I shouldn't, said something I shouldn't or stepped over a boundary and will tell me I can choose to leave or change etc
 
Hes never pretended to be anything else. So I cant complain hes like it now.

My parents do come stay for a couple nights at a time. Same when we go there. 36 hrs seems to be his limit of tolerance. 
My sister hasnt been as we dont really have space. As she has 2 children. So yes I can invite people over 

I think I'd git to an age where uve started realising my situation isnt serving ME. but late to notice and not sure if have strentlgth or will to leave him as I've considered it many times but always decided my lifestyle and relationship arent that bad.... and could easily be worse... or very lonely. 

So here I am trying to find a way to make it work on all fronts. still not found an answer lol despite 12 pages 

scrooge2008

Is he much older than you?  All this talk of wills makes me wonder!  I think you have identified the problems, perhaps you could start taking back a little bit of control by establishing some boundaries of your own.  TBH my husband used to say 'I could choose to leave or change' and after a nervous breakdown I chose to leave and that was the point that he changed and has turned into an amazing husband.  We have been married 30 years now.  I really thought he did not care at all.   When I asked him why he manipulated me for all that time, he said it was because I let him.  In hindsight we were playing out his parents marriage and now we communicate openly about everything and decisions have to work for both of us.  I wish you luck.

Jeepers_Creepers

scrooge2008 said:

Is he much older than you?  All this talk of wills makes me wonder!  I think you have identified the problems, perhaps you could start taking back a little bit of control by establishing some boundaries of your own.  TBH my husband used to say 'I could choose to leave or change' and after a nervous breakdown I chose to leave and that was the point that he changed and has turned into an amazing husband.  We have been married 30 years now.  I really thought he did not care at all.   When I asked him why he manipulated me for all that time, he said it was because I let him.  In hindsight we were playing out his parents marriage and now we communicate openly about everything and decisions have to work for both of us.  I wish you luck.

Well, that's me told!

Pleased it worked out for you, Scrooge. That has to be rare, tho', if folk are totally honest about their situation.