Long term cohabitation dilemma

gab3x

This is a tough one to be in and is a question of perception rather than universal right or wrong.

Things is there no two relationships are like.

If you were to invest £400pcm in savings at 2% interest over 15 years you would have now £83,000 in your bank account. Combine that with equity in your flat and there is a great sum there. 

If you are unhappy and want a change then either demand it but be prepared walk away or learn to live with it.

I would advise speaking to a solicitor beforehand as long term cohabitation can get you some rights you might not be aware of.

I do hope you sort it out one way or another.

Jeepers_Creepers

Viking_warrior said:

I do need to clarify. I dont pay ALL biill's. I pay gas and electric, half house insurance, all groceries, contribute to improvements around a third when I can. He pays council tax, tv license, water and broadband half house insurance and twi thirds home improvements. I also pay rent 

He owns his house outright. Sorry, he owns more than one house outright - he presumably rents the other ones out. This one, however, is his chosen 'home'. He claims, tho', that he'd still rent out a room if you weren't living there?! Why? For company or for more money?

What would other forum members do in this scenario - ie if they were the home-owners? What have you done in similar situations?

I don't have a comparable situation to relate, but I'm trying to think back a loooong time ago when I bought my first flat, and if my - then - girlfriend had worked in the same area so could/would have likely moved in (almost did - thankfully didn't). What would have appeared 'reasonable' and 'fair' and 'right'?

Well, at the early stages of our relationship, I wouldn't have been looking to put her name on the deeds... By the exact same token, I wouldn't have expected anything towards the mortgage in any form, 'rent' or otherwise. I think all I'd hope/expect (assuming she was earning as well) is that she'd contribute to sharing the cost of food, and perhaps anything else that increased in consumption (tho' everything else would surely have been minimal).

So, it would very much still be my flat at that stage, very much me paying for it, very much not expecting any contributions that would leave me better off, and very much based on it being an earlyish stage of the relationship.

The situation would, tho', have been made much more complex had I been so stretched in the flat's purchase that my intention had always been to rent out a room to help handle the mortgage - what to do then? Hard to know how I'd have felt about a girlfriend effectively contributing to the purchase of my flat without - unless the relationship turned out to be permanent - her benefiting from it. I really don't know what would have happened under that situation, but I suspect it would have felt uncomfortable - unless, of course, it was very obvious the relationship was going solidly the right way as we'd both ultimately benefit.

It didn't become an issue in that case since my girlfriend at the time got a job a fair distance away, and it was also becoming pretty clear that not all was as it should in the relationship. If I'm honest, I knew that all wasn't as it should have been, and that it wasn't a matter of talking things through - there were more deep-rooted issues going on - so, had she moved in with me, I would have been very defensive about the flat. And that is what was at the root of it all - knowing not all was right. Whatever 'flat-sharing' arrangements may have been arrived at, it would certainly not - could not - have carried on over years; that would have simply been poisonous.

A year later, I met someone else. Within a relatively short period of time, she had a key, and a year later we were married. At no stage then (or since, obviously) was there even a thought of 'contribution' or share or whatever. Why? Because I knew she was the right person, I knew we'd be together, and everything else then became an irrelevance.

There's the irony; in a sense it wouldn't have mattered what my, now, wife would have done when she moved in - paid towards everything, or paid absolutely nothing. It didn't matter - it was all going to be shared anyway! Whereas with my previous girlfriend, I realise I would have felt very awkward about any contribution, and I now know why.

When I look back, it is very clear what was behind any thoughts and decisions; simply knowing who was the right person. 

This is not really like VW's situation, but it's brought some things into focus. VW's partner doesn't need her contribution; he's doing just fine and dandy, thank you. VW's partner isn't sharing anything of his with her on a permanent basis. And with all this, VW's partner also knows that the contributions he is expecting/demanding from her leaves her pretty much flat broke. And this has been going on for 15 years.

Only one word sums that up for me, I'm afraid - toxic. And I find all his reasons and excuses to be completely phony.

[Deleted User]

Viking_warrior said:

I do need to clarify. I dont pay ALL biill's. I pay gas and electric, half house insurance, all groceries, contribute to improvements around a third when I can. He pays council tax, tv license, water and broadband half house insurance and twi thirds home improvements. I also pay rent 

Why are paying a third of home improvements and half the insurance for a property that is not yours?  Your partner has made it quite clear he does not see the property as yours in any way, shape of form hence the co-habitation agreement.  £400 a month "rent" is also taking the !!!!!! especially for an unencumbered property.  If he wants a lodger why doesn't he just get a lodger.  You being there does not prevent him letting a spare room in his property as presumably he would not expect to the lodger to share his bed. Your £400 a month to this man is pure profit.  This is not equality.

For the record I have never charge a partner "rent" for living in a property I owned and I had a mortgage.  

Viking_warrior

rachel230 said:

. I pay gas and electric, half house insurance, all groceries, contribute to improvements around a third when I can. He pays council tax, tv license, water and broadband half house insurance and twi thirds home improvements. I also pay rent 

I note the clever division of the bills. The biggest outlay monthly has to be food which has been deemed your responsibility (of course!) TV license, water and broadband are minimal by comparison. If you tot up what you each pay in bills monthly, I'm sure you will be paying out far more than him.
Also, why on earth are you paying for improvements/repairs on a house that you have been categorically told (by him) is not yours. As someone further up said, even a lodger has a far better deal than you - a long term * partner *.
As for "I'm leaving you the house in my Will".. means absolutely zero! He can change his Will any moment! Try standing up to him over this financial abuse and see how long you remain in his Will for!

I have tried to stand up a number of times and often the resulting conflict ends with him saying he doesn't need my stress in his life and he will cut me out of his will. He has never actually done that. And in all honesty I don't care if he does....
 I'm not after his assets, I simply want what I contribute to mean something, be acknowledged and to find a way to increase my assets so I can join him in our home ownership in future.
Ps..  The rationale for me supporting improvements is that I'm benefitting from them ito a nicer living environment.  

olgadapolga

Viking_warrior said:

rachel230 said:

. I pay gas and electric, half house insurance, all groceries, contribute to improvements around a third when I can. He pays council tax, tv license, water and broadband half house insurance and twi thirds home improvements. I also pay rent 

I note the clever division of the bills. The biggest outlay monthly has to be food which has been deemed your responsibility (of course!) TV license, water and broadband are minimal by comparison. If you tot up what you each pay in bills monthly, I'm sure you will be paying out far more than him.
Also, why on earth are you paying for improvements/repairs on a house that you have been categorically told (by him) is not yours. As someone further up said, even a lodger has a far better deal than you - a long term * partner *.
As for "I'm leaving you the house in my Will".. means absolutely zero! He can change his Will any moment! Try standing up to him over this financial abuse and see how long you remain in his Will for!

I have tried to stand up a number of times and often the resulting conflict ends with him saying he doesn't need my stress in his life and he will cut me out of his will. He has never actually done that. And in all honesty I don't care if he does....
 I'm not after his assets, I simply want what I contribute to mean something, be acknowledged and to find a way to increase my assets so I can join him in our home ownership in future.
Ps..  The rationale for me supporting improvements is that I'm benefitting from them ito a nicer living environment.  

So, basically it's "his way or the highway"? Sorry to be blunt but he's totally taking you for a fool. This is not a partnership, this is financial abuse. There is no other way to describe it. The situation will never change unless YOU change it and the only way I can see that happening is that you leave and take control of your future again.

Please stop making excuses about things and just tell him that enough is enough, you can't afford to keep him anymore. You know this, virtually all of the replies on this thread have said the same thing, you just need to put something into action.

I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do.

Tiglet2

Viking_warrior said:

rachel230 said:

. I pay gas and electric, half house insurance, all groceries, contribute to improvements around a third when I can. He pays council tax, tv license, water and broadband half house insurance and twi thirds home improvements. I also pay rent 

I note the clever division of the bills. The biggest outlay monthly has to be food which has been deemed your responsibility (of course!) TV license, water and broadband are minimal by comparison. If you tot up what you each pay in bills monthly, I'm sure you will be paying out far more than him.
Also, why on earth are you paying for improvements/repairs on a house that you have been categorically told (by him) is not yours. As someone further up said, even a lodger has a far better deal than you - a long term * partner *.
As for "I'm leaving you the house in my Will".. means absolutely zero! He can change his Will any moment! Try standing up to him over this financial abuse and see how long you remain in his Will for!

I have tried to stand up a number of times and often the resulting conflict ends with him saying he doesn't need my stress in his life and he will cut me out of his will. He has never actually done that. And in all honesty I don't care if he does....
 I'm not after his assets, I simply want what I contribute to mean something, be acknowledged and to find a way to increase my assets so I can join him in our home ownership in future.
Ps..  The rationale for me supporting improvements is that I'm benefitting from them ito a nicer living environment.  

I am so very sorry that you are in this position. 

Unfortunately I have to agree with Jeepers_Creepers - you are not "the one".   He's threatening you by arguing that he doesn't need the stress and will cut you out of his Will - sorry to say these are not the words of someone who loves you.

For the sake of your own sanity and future happiness you need to leave him to his house and Will and leave this toxic environment.  He treats you like a doormat and you've become one.  

If you don't want to believe any of the advice on here, I would suggest you read these books:

"Should I Stay or Should I go" and "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft.

GrumpyDil

VW I tend to keep out of threads involving relationship question as I'm not the right person for that sort of discussion.

But in this case if you are unhappy about the situation then surely that answers your question. Any relationship should be a balancing act between the two parties and this sounds far from it.

I'm not sure what the situation re your flat is insofar as whether you have an ordinary residential mortgage with consent to let or a BTL mortgage. But if residential then you at least have the flat as an option if you can't resolve issues with your partner.

It's never easy but life is far too short to live in a situation where you are unhappy. 

getmore4less

Viking_warrior said:

rachel230 said:

. I pay gas and electric, half house insurance, all groceries, contribute to improvements around a third when I can. He pays council tax, tv license, water and broadband half house insurance and twi thirds home improvements. I also pay rent 

I note the clever division of the bills. The biggest outlay monthly has to be food which has been deemed your responsibility (of course!) TV license, water and broadband are minimal by comparison. If you tot up what you each pay in bills monthly, I'm sure you will be paying out far more than him.
Also, why on earth are you paying for improvements/repairs on a house that you have been categorically told (by him) is not yours. As someone further up said, even a lodger has a far better deal than you - a long term * partner *.
As for "I'm leaving you the house in my Will".. means absolutely zero! He can change his Will any moment! Try standing up to him over this financial abuse and see how long you remain in his Will for!

I have tried to stand up a number of times and often the resulting conflict ends with him saying he doesn't need my stress in his life and he will cut me out of his will. He has never actually done that. And in all honesty I don't care if he does....
 I'm not after his assets, I simply want what I contribute to mean something, be acknowledged and to find a way to increase my assets so I can join him in our home ownership in future.
Ps..  The rationale for me supporting improvements is that I'm benefitting from them ito a nicer living environment.  

I was surprised with the second part of that......

I was expecting "cut me out of his life"    

This seems much more like a lodger+ with benefits situation.

AnotherJoe

Viking_warrior said:

rachel230 said:

. I pay gas and electric, half house insurance, all groceries, contribute to improvements around a third when I can. He pays council tax, tv license, water and broadband half house insurance and two thirds home improvements. I also pay rent 

I note the clever division of the bills. The biggest outlay monthly has to be food which has been deemed your responsibility (of course!) TV license, water and broadband are minimal by comparison. If you tot up what you each pay in bills monthly, I'm sure you will be paying out far more than him.
Also, why on earth are you paying for improvements/repairs on a house that you have been categorically told (by him) is not yours. As someone further up said, even a lodger has a far better deal than you - a long term * partner *.
As for "I'm leaving you the house in my Will".. means absolutely zero! He can change his Will any moment! Try standing up to him over this financial abuse and see how long you remain in his Will for!

I have tried to stand up a number of times and often the resulting conflict ends with him saying he doesn't need my stress in his life and he will cut me out of his will. He has never actually done that. And in all honesty I don't care if he does....
 I'm not after his assets, I simply want what I contribute to mean something, be acknowledged and to find a way to increase my assets so I can join him in our home ownership in future.
Ps..  The rationale for me supporting improvements is that I'm benefitting from them ito a nicer living environment.  

In the immortal words of the Rolling Stones "You can't always get what you want"

Please, for your own sake, see if you can take that on board and then perhaps it will be clear to you what to do.

longtimelurker2020

@Viking_warrior the other posters have pretty much said it all so I won’t repeat the recurring advice about your relationship (which I agree with btw) 

I’ll focus on the joint home ownership you mentioned, and your future financial security 

You say you want to join him in home ownership but truth be told you can’t afford to, unless you’re planning to sell your flat to buy with him?

 If you do that you can’t match him pound for pound and I don’t see him agreeing to be joint tenants (equal ownership) if your contributions are unequal.

So he will still ‘out own’ you in the joint home, and this feeling you have of being subordinate in the relationship could persist. 

3 questions:

1. what if you choose to stay but your relationship eventually crumbles and he asks you to leave his house when you’re 58? Or you finally realise at that age that you need to leave? 

At 48 you still have time to rebuild your finances and life on your own terms. Yes your lifestyle will take a hit, moving from the lovely house you’ve described to a one bed flat, but at least it’s yours.

The longer you remain in this situation, the harder it will be to create financial security for yourself. 

2. What would your future self think of the financial choices you are making today?

Jeff Bezos (Amazon founder) has what he amusingly refers to as a ‘regret minimisation framework’ 

Please try stepping into your future self’s shoes and looking back at what you’re doing today. You don’t want to be a poor pensioner, and you have time now to course correct. 

3. What is your Plan B?