Long term cohabitation dilemma

[Deleted User]

Viking_warrior said:

rachel230 said:

. I pay gas and electric, half house insurance, all groceries, contribute to improvements around a third when I can. He pays council tax, tv license, water and broadband half house insurance and twi thirds home improvements. I also pay rent 

I note the clever division of the bills. The biggest outlay monthly has to be food which has been deemed your responsibility (of course!) TV license, water and broadband are minimal by comparison. If you tot up what you each pay in bills monthly, I'm sure you will be paying out far more than him.
Also, why on earth are you paying for improvements/repairs on a house that you have been categorically told (by him) is not yours. As someone further up said, even a lodger has a far better deal than you - a long term * partner *.
As for "I'm leaving you the house in my Will".. means absolutely zero! He can change his Will any moment! Try standing up to him over this financial abuse and see how long you remain in his Will for!

I have tried to stand up a number of times and often the resulting conflict ends with him saying he doesn't need my stress in his life and he will cut me out of his will. He has never actually done that. And in all honesty I don't care if he does....
 I'm not after his assets, I simply want what I contribute to mean something, be acknowledged and to find a way to increase my assets so I can join him in our home ownership in future.
Ps..  The rationale for me supporting improvements is that I'm benefitting from them ito a nicer living environment.  

By that same logic tenants should support their landlord for improvements to rental properties over and above the rent already paid.  Absolute lunacy!!!!

I get the distinct impression your living environment would be vastly improved by moving out and dumping Ebenezer.  

Jeepers_Creepers

"I have tried to stand up a number of times and often the resulting conflict ends with him saying he doesn't need my stress in his life and he will cut me out of his will. He has never actually done that. And in all honesty I don't care if he does....
 I'm not after his assets, I simply want what I contribute to mean something, be acknowledged and to find a way to increase my assets so I can join him in our home ownership in future.

Ps..  The rationale for me supporting improvements is that I'm benefitting from them ito a nicer living environment."

VW, you are not a fool, just someone in a relationship, one that you hope and expect is a loving and equal one - as relationships should be.

Everything points to this not being the case here. This is a controlling relationship, where your partner wants all the power over you. Everything is on his terms.

It would be bad enough if all you were contributing was what you 'used' - food and energy, that sort of stuff; even that wouldn't be the basis of a healthy relationship as it's dragged on for over 15 years. ~2 years, possibly, perhaps even healthily, as you both worked out if you were meant for each other. 15? No.

But it's worse even than that - he actually wants your money too, to the point where you can not make yourself fully self-sufficient.

When you try and discuss this with him, he comes back with "I don't need your stress in my life, and I'll cut you out of my will." Wow, so keep on asking and he'll drop you? Just like that? That's all it would take? After 15 years?

A question: is that what a loving person would say? (That's a yes/no answer, by the way.)

I totally believe you when you say the 'will' situation wouldn't bother you - it's not what's important to you. That's just as well, as he's using that as a carrot and part of his control; after 15 years in this relationship, he is still cynical enough to believe that it does matter to you, that it will affect your decision to stay with him. That is what he thinks of you.

A question: is that what a loving person should think of you, after 3 months let alone 15 years? (That's a ditto, I'm afraid).

And when you try and get to the bottom of what it's all about, he cites his failed marriage(s) and relationships, and his supposed loss of trust as a result? "Boo-hoo - poor me, it's so unfair how I've been treated by past women - it's not my fault I don't trust women any more...". Whether he has been hard done by or not (I very much suspect the latter), he is firmly placing your 15 year relationship in the same bottle as these other ones. I should have done this with my future wife just because my previous girlfriend had issues?

A question: I don't need to ask it, do I?

This is not a loving relationship. It is one of control. Of gaslighting. Of manipulation. Of deviousness.

I am certain you actually know this, VW, and my heart aches for you as I fear it'll just carry on.

Sunsaru

I feel for the OP I really do. I was married to someone like that. Despite knowing I was fighting a losing battle I hung in there to the very end hoping that things would change for the better.

In hindsight I should have walked a few years before we split but once you're emotionally attached it's hard to let go despite the red flags (plus we had a child together). Ultimately I stood up for myself 6 months before we split so she decided the grass was greener elsewhere then left me. I was in my 40's and I thought my world was over......

I have never been happier.

Jeepers_Creepers

Sunsaru said:

I feel for the OP I really do. I was married to someone like that. Despite knowing I was fighting a losing battle I hung in there to the very end hoping that things would change for the better.

I have never been happier.

You've said something really important there, Sunsaru, and it isn't even the "I have never been happier" part - even tho' that is the ideal result!

It's the 'losing battle' comment, 'hoping things will change for the better'.

I have had quite an epiphany over the past couple of years, having started to try and analyse a couple of weird semi-close family relationships. I read and listened to a fair amount of what was becoming apparent over a number of years, and I have Donald Trump to thank for it... Not quite sure how it happened - I think I must have read some reference to him being a 'Narcissist' (he's a lot worse than that...), and being curious about what this actually meant other than just loving yourself a bit too much.

Wow. Blinds removed. A wave of recognition. Chills and tingling hairs on t'back of t'neck. An awakening. And a complete shifting of control, and not being emotionally manipulated any more.

The most desperate part of it all? They will not change. They cannot change. It is what they are. Any indication or plea or claim of change is just further manipulation. It was an immensely sad realisation for me, but a very - sanity-restoring - one; blood is not thicker than water.

[Deleted User]

Yes, narcissists tend to be drawn to 'empaths', people who are sensitive and perhaps lacking self-esteem. I remember one such relationship in which I was increasingly taken for granted and treated unkindly, hoping it would get better and he'd see the light. Of course, that doesn't happen and eventually, the red flags become blinding (if you're fortunate enough to escape the situation).

What really put it into perspective for me was, after moving across the country to be with him and doing everything I could to single-handedly maintain the relationship, when we broke up, he simply said 'you owe me £20'. 

I agree with Jeepers_Creepers. The likelihood is, this will just carry on for the OP. Unless she has some sort of epiphany, our words will fall flat. There is comfort in the familiar, even if the familiar is damaging and detrimental.

wannabe_a_saver

This man has got himself a great little setup! 

He's got someone living in his house who supplements his bills to less than half what they would be otherwise, pays towards maintenance and home improvements and also a nice bit of cash on top just for the privilege of living there and joy of joys this person also cooks, cleans and sleeps with him! 

Why would he give that up?  Why would you ever accept being that person who he keeps around for selfish reasons not because he cares about you?

Viking_warrior

wannabe_a_saver said:

This man has got himself a great little setup! 

He's got someone living in his house who supplements his bills to less than half what they would be otherwise, pays towards maintenance and home improvements and also a nice bit of cash on top just for the privilege of living there and joy of joys this person also cooks, cleans and sleeps with him! 

Why would he give that up?  Why would you ever accept being that person who he keeps around for selfish reasons not because he cares about you?

Probably because I want to believe he does love me and care for me. I've not experienced anything different and scared to let go in case I cant get better. All very good questions. It's like a frog boiling in a pot. You dont know your boiling to death until you can no longer jump out 

CookieMonster

There are multiple indicators for a clinical diagnosis of Narcissism.
Most people are called this based on 1 or 2 signs - which is incorrect.

Some people are just a-holes.

First Google search reply.

Here is a list of 9 Traits of a Narcissist & Behaviour to Watch For.

• Lack of Empathy. A lack of empathy may be the key defining characteristic of a narcissistic person. ...
• Manipulative. ...
• Projection. ...
• Emotionally Cold. ...
• Gaslighting. ...
• Never Takes Responsibility. ...
• Controlling. ...
• Grandiose.

9 Traits of a Narcissist & Behaviour to Watch For | Man of Many

A number of individuals here have assigned motives based on a small amount of information from one side of the equation, and are demonising the partner. As they are free to do. Often based on their own experience.

A number of those are encouraging the OP to escape this abusive relationship (I'm paraphrasing).

As pointed out by a previous poster; we all have our biases.
Often based on experience, they are usually/often a good thing.

Where some see an abuser, or coercive control, I see a man who has set boundaries on his relationship - from the very start.
For whatever reason (although previous experience in relationships is always a good one, this very thing appears to be the basis of some of the advice given by others here) he has laid out the terms of their relationship.
Which the OP has decided was acceptable at that time.

This may have mutated into a form of abuse - VW is best-placed to judge that - over the past decade and a half.

These days almost everything can be abuse - emotional, financial, etc...

You can choose to see it as control, because it is:
The partner is controlling his environment to avoid a repeat of past mistake(s) where someone who said she cared turned out to not care at all (poetic licence here from me, but since it cost him a house I'm sure he's been stung before) and it cost him time, money and probably a lot of stress as he uses that word in his responses.

That doesn't make it abuse of Viking Warrior.

VW is free to leave at any time, or to communicate (if possible) with her partner in order to change things (see my previous post).

I'm trying desperately NOT to be an armchair psychologist, as I'm not qualified, but I would like to posit (as previously) an alternate viewpoint to some of the responses above.

As always, i welcome debate in PM, to avoid going too far off topic on the thread.

The partner has managed to overcome losing a house to gaining two, and probably has an okay pension and salary (my assumptions).
He's being defensive in their communication based on having lost once already. Understandably.
And maybe he's really poor at handling stress or communicating in a relationship.
That doesn't make him a <insert current assessment of the bad person>.

I believe that VW has had a better 15 years (emotionally) with the partner than she would have on her own, and conversely VW has possibly has had a worse 15 years than she could have had with another partner.

Financially, that's a different kettle of fish and I do also wonder at some of the costs being paid by VW in the long term.

Financial items are now important, and there are choices to be made here, yes.

As before, I would suggest that you approach the subject with your partner in such a way that you can communicate and get him to understand your side of things, and what you want and need.

As before VW, good luck - whatever you decide to do here.

Angela_D_3

Viking_warrior said:

wannabe_a_saver said:

This man has got himself a great little setup! 

He's got someone living in his house who supplements his bills to less than half what they would be otherwise, pays towards maintenance and home improvements and also a nice bit of cash on top just for the privilege of living there and joy of joys this person also cooks, cleans and sleeps with him! 

Why would he give that up?  Why would you ever accept being that person who he keeps around for selfish reasons not because he cares about you?

Probably because I want to believe he does love me and care for me. I've not experienced anything different and scared to let go in case I cant get better. All very good questions. It's like a frog boiling in a pot. You dont know your boiling to death until you can no longer jump out 

Its scary leaving.  I left.  With 4 children,  one in a pushchair,  nowhere to rent nevermind own.  Im happier.  The kids are happier.  I own one house and am about to buy another.
Everytime i see him I remember why i left.  

Mojisola

Viking_warrior said:

Probably because I want to believe he does love me and care for me.

I've not experienced anything different and scared to let go in case I cant get better.

Being on your own and leading your own life is better than being controlled by a partner like this.

Have you ever considered that he has set your financial contribution at a level that makes sure that you don't have spare money to easily leave?