Am I right to be annoyed, and if so what should I do about it.

Spendless

Rambosmum said:

Spendless said:

Google 'The mental load'
Are any of the jobs given absolutely needed for the journey to go ahead? If not see about them being done in the days prior to going out or the days following.
As your children get older they will become able to do more tasks themselves which in turn will free you up. Eg a teenagers idea of going out is to have a charged up phone though they might have needed to spend several hours choosing their outfit and doing hair/make-up beforehand! 

We've had lots of conversations about mental load over the years. His answer is "just don't do it" which worked pre kids. But now, if I don't do the food shop, the laundry, pay the bills, it isn't just us that suffers. So I do the stuff urgent to me and the kids, but don't remind him about his stuff (leading to an increasingly large parking ticket for him, no clean underwear etc). When it comes to going out for the day, task are just pertinent to the day out, not the rest of the household stuff. 

An example, which has lead to this thread, was yesterday. On Saturday we discussed our plans for Sunday, which were a day out with his parents, organised by him but the detail planned by me (due to time constraints rather than anything else).  We agreed on a packed lunch as food at the location was poor, he headed to the shops and bought stuff for him and I, no consideration as to what the kids would eat (as in insufficient amount of food for 4). Second trip to the shop, came back incomplete. Sunday AM, his lie in day (we take it in turns each weekend day). We agreed on Saturday night a time for him to get up to allow him to get himself and a child ready and then care for the kids whilst I pack the car. He agreed to a slightly earlier get up so he didn't need to make the pack lunch on Saturday night. Sunday, he got up 15 minutes late (no biggy) then took the entire hour to get himself ready (shower and dressed). Arrived downstairs saying "I'll make the pack lunch now", this was 10 minutes after we should have set off. 

Ok, I've gone back and read through. If you could recreate last weekend, what steps could you put in to get an alternative outcome.
My suggestions for this would be no negotiations for doing the packed lunch on Sunday morning. If it was to do with sandwiches being fresher etc (I know some people dislike sandwiches made the night before) alter what you are taking to grap and go stuff.
With the exception of anything that needs to be refrigerated, pack the car up the night before too. Make the day you set off purey about self care (washing, dressing, brushing hair/teeth etc).
To echo someone else's question, why wasn't enough/ the right food bought? My huisband grocery shopped during lockdown mostly because I'm a higher risk category. He frequently  came back without something and claimed 'there wasn't any' even when we knew full well, he'd not looked properly. 

Aranyani

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Rambosmum said:

Aranyani said:

Rambosmum said:

Pollycat said:

Rambosmum said:

Pollycat said:

He's not stepping up because he knows you're there to do it.

So what's the solution?
I don't actually think you are right, I think he's just genuinely inept (his mothers son), but if you are, how do you solve it?

My solution would be to tell him what he's not doing.

Tell him what you expect of him.

Even if you are right (I'm not disputing you aren't - you know him, I don't) do you think that people can't change?

If you are just writing it off as ineptitude, no wonder you're not getting anywhere.

Not quite a similar situation but my ex husband had a habit of taking off his white work shirts with the buttons still fastened but inside out.

After asking him to unbutton them and put them the right way round, I started washing them as he'd left them and ironing them inside out, hanging them like that in his wardrobe.

When he got to the first shirt like that, he was pretty angry.

I pointed out that it was his problem.

He either did as I'd asked or he wash and iron them himself.

He decided it was easier to take off his shirts properly.

I cannot leave to see his parents without him in the car

Yes you can!

But that's unfair on his parents and he gets a day by himself to do what he likes, whilst I have to look after the kids. That doesn't seem like it sends the right message!

Let him take the children to see his parents and you have a day to yourself then. A day out of the house so he has to figure things out himself even if it results in them not leaving the house. 

That is a very good idea.  Leave the house too if you can so that you don't get exasperated watching him do a poor job and step in to take over (which is probably what he'll be hoping for!)

Primrose

It's partly a matter of training.
When  we were very young and first married my husband who always wore his long shirt sleeves rolled up, threw them into the laundry bin like that  unrolled. He would never In roll them. 

We were hard up.  He only had about three shirts.  We had no washing machine.  I simply washed them in that state and in the winter the rolledup cotton parts took days to dry hanging on the line so some days he had no dry shirts to wear.

He soon learned to unroll the sleeves so they dried more quickly!
We all need to be trained out  of bad habits when they affect others. Perhaps you just have to proceed living your family life without his input and leave him out of your arrangements if he can't or won't get his act together.  .  Make him responsible  for remembering his own family birthdays etc snd  tell his family he,s responsible.  Just proceed without him if he continually is unable or unwilling get his act together.

Do you think this is laziness on his part, knowing you will step in and organise things or is he possibly autistic in some way and had never been diagnosed ? 

I suggest you sit down once more together to thrash this out and give him specific examples of where things need to improve so he has areas he can't concentrate on improving.  I doubt he'll suddenly become Mr Efficiency overnight.  We all need years of training to improve our habits. 

Pollycat

Primrose said:

It's partly a matter of training.
When  we were very young and first married my husband who always wore his long shirt sleeves rolled up, threw them into the laundry bin like that  unrolled. He would never In roll them. 

We were hard up.  He only had about three shirts.  We had no washing machine.  I simply washed them in that state and in the winter the rolledup cotton parts took days to dry hanging on the line so some days he had no dry shirts to wear.

He soon learned to unroll the sleeves so they dried more quickly!
We all need to be trained out  of bad habits when they affect others. Perhaps you just have to proceed living your family life without his input and leave him out of your arrangements if he can't or won't get his act together.  .  Make him responsible  for remembering his own family birthdays etc snd  tell his family he,s responsible.  Just proceed without him if he continually is unable or unwilling get his act together.

Do you think this is laziness on his part, knowing you will step in and organise things or is he possibly autistic in some way and had never been diagnosed ? 

I suggest you sit down once more together to thrash this out and give him specific examples of where things need to improve so he has areas he can't concentrate on improving.  I doubt he'll suddenly become Mr Efficiency overnight.  We all need years of training to improve our habits. 

I made a very similar point up-thread.

Rambosmum

Pollycat said:

Rambosmum said:

Yes, we've spoke about how it makes me feel. He says he'll try harder but then doesn't. I've spoken to him about today at lunch and he thinks I'm just being unfair with him and saying he doesn't pull his weight - but that isn't what I'm saying, I'm saying he leaves the mental load to me, and appears incapable of forward planning, giving yesterday as an example. He says I'm too strict on schedules but cannot then say why it is fair, or reasonable, to keep others waiting or for us to turn up late to things we have booked at a set time beyond "does it really matter". He hates being kept waiting by others, so I asked if he felt his time was therefore more important that others, he insists that isn't the case. 

I've absolutely loved lockdown, it was so stress free for us as we just didn't have to leave the house!  Heaven. No arguing over stuff like this. 

As for why he came back with an incomplete list,  he says he didn't read i properly, so I sent him out again, but he's quite happy with that, it means he gets some peace! 

But it is the case.

To keep people waiting is a clear indication that you see your time as more important than theirs.

It is a trait I dislike intensely.

It's disrespectful.

I agree. And said so. I also said, even if he didn't think he thought that, the behaviour shows he does and it's what people believe of him as actions speak louder than words. 

Spendless

Rambosmum said:

littlegreenparrot said:

I understand your frustration, it must be driving you up the wall. 
The whole 'But you should have asked...told me...' thing is nonsense, it abdicates all responsibility and makes you do the emotional labour. 
Which leaves you with this problem, you either do everything yourself because its easier and it perpetuates itself, or it impacts other people. 

Have you explained to him exactly how it makes you feel? That even though he might not intend to, it makes you feel like he is an extra responsibility, or that he doesn't want to help, or do things with you and the children, or however you want to put it?
My DH sometimes struggles with understanding the impact his behaviour can have on me, because it genuinely doesn't occur to him. He's getting better at it (20 years down the line..) but I also need to spell things out or he absolutely doesn't get it. 

I would also persist with the lists. I'm fascinated to know the explanation as to why he came back without half the stuff on the shopping list. Use that as an example, this clearly didn't work, but we need to find something that will work. What strategy do you suggest? He needs to be involved with the solution or unfortunately nothing will stick. 

I feel for you, it must be hard. 

Yes, we've spoke about how it makes me feel. He says he'll try harder but then doesn't. I've spoken to him about today at lunch and he thinks I'm just being unfair with him and saying he doesn't pull his weight - but that isn't what I'm saying, I'm saying he leaves the mental load to me, and appears incapable of forward planning, giving yesterday as an example. He says I'm too strict on schedules but cannot then say why it is fair, or reasonable, to keep others waiting or for us to turn up late to things we have booked at a set time beyond "does it really matter". He hates being kept waiting by others, so I asked if he felt his time was therefore more important that others, he insists that isn't the case. 

I've absolutely loved lockdown, it was so stress free for us as we just didn't have to leave the house!  Heaven. No arguing over stuff like this. 

As for why he came back with an incomplete list,  he says he didn't read i properly, so I sent him out again, but he's quite happy with that, it means he gets some peace! 

Ok, so next time he heads off with his list say ;and have you got a pen, so you can cross the items off as you put them in the trolley. I know you or others might answer 'why should I' but you're unhappy with how things are and you're not going to change him in one fell swoop from how he is to how you want him to be.

Aranyani

Rambosmum said:

Pollycat said:

Aranyani said:

Yes you can!

Of course the OP can.

But won't.

She is enabling his behaviour.

I don't think there is a solution until that changes.

But who loses out? Something like laundry, I can not do his and he loses out. If we go out and I don't ensure the kids stuff is with us, who loses out? The kids. If I leave without him because he isn't ready on time, who loses out? Me.

He does go out with the kids by himself and he often forgets stuff and does manage, often by having to borrow or buy stuff.  but more often than not, we go out as a family. 

How can I stop enabling him without it being me or the kids who lose out? I already don't do his laundry, don't do his shopping, don't send his family cards/ presents, don't organise him for work or times he has the kids alone or if he goes out without us. The only things I do are where it would be me, the kids or a mutual third party who would lose out. 

You might just have to let them lose out a couple of times.  That might actually have some impact. 

Rambosmum

Example today - DH finishes work early to collect the kids from school and take eldest to his swimming lesson. This something he suggested, entirely unprompted or requested by me  great. Except, he always leaves late and doesn't pack the swimming kit. Do I:

1. say nothing about the swimming kit risking either DH being later and not getting to DS on time meaning we have to pay for after school club when in reality he'll be there 5 minutes or DH completely forgetting the kit and DS not being able to have his lesson (he loves swimming and would be absolutely devastated).
2. remind him to pack the bag  but no more, with the likely consequence being 1.
3. remind him to pack bag then pack it if he doesn't do it?

If it were DHs swimming session I'd just leave him to it, but it isn't. 

Sky_

I'd remind him once, then leave it at that.  If your DS is anything like my kids, then your DH will soon be VERY sorry that he forgot and your DS will make sure it doesn't happen many more times!!! 

Honestly, it won't do either of them any harm to deal with the consequences of your DH's poor memory/lack of focus.  How would your children cope if DH was a single parent?

Rambosmum

Sky_ said:

I'd remind him once, then leave it at that.  If your DS is anything like my kids, then your DH will soon be VERY sorry that he forgot and your DS will make sure it doesn't happen many more times!!! 

Honestly, it won't do either of them any harm to deal with the consequences of your DH's poor memory/lack of focus.  How would your children cope if DH was a single parent?

I guess not, I just feel really sorry for DS. He isn't really at an age where he can take responsibility for it (he is only just getting the idea of week days and weekends, doesn't yet keep track of the days of the week). He's quite an anxious child and very emotional and seems like teaching DH a lesson at DSs expense and no real impact on DH.