Mother-in-law and money

bouicca21

If MiL doesn’t spend a lot, does she actually understand how much stuff costs nowadays? Is she stuck in an earlier cost of living bubble?  Would it help to take her supermarket shopping so she can see how much you spend?

Primrose

I,d ask a local estate agents come in value the property. When MIL is asked to"tidy up her room tell her it because you're thinking of selling  up and downsizing because your reduced income means you can no longer go on living here the  penny may start to drop.  .  Also start talking to your m.i.l about the sort of property she envisages herself living in going forward because if she and her daughter are refusing to be realistic about household income going forward, yiu won't be all be able to live there going forward. 

Then put on your big boys knickers and start asserting yourself.  If your wife and your m.i.l. Continue ganging up against you you need to start reasserting some authority if they,ve been largely living off your income in the past.   And part of this may mean you need to sit down quietly but firmly with your m.i.l and show her how many beans make five, 

badmemory

Does your wife have any retirement income yet or are you trying to finance the whole household?  (Sorry if I missed that).  I suggest that you actually turn off the heating as you walk out to go to work.  Unless your wife is years older than you or in ill health then do not get another job to support everyone elses lifestyle, marriage is suppposed to be a partnership!

Silvertabby

Whatever you do, I hope you get this sorted. 

Does remind me of when my gran lived with us in the 1960s.  We lived in a 2 up 2 down with an outside loo (think Coronation Street houses in the early days). My sister and I shared a bedroom, and gran had the downstairs 'best' room as her bed sitter.  This meant that we lived in the kitchen/diner, which had a coal fire for heating.  This was only lit 'when needed' (ie, when it was freezing !) because of the cost.  Gran's room, however, had a gas fire which seemed to be switched on permanently. 

Her State pension must have been about £3 per week, but she only gave my mum 10 shillings (50 pence) per week for her 'keep'.  That was expected to pay for not only the gas fire, but also any food that she fancied, even if that was something that we couldn't have because of the cost.  Not only that, she refused to use the outside loo 'because the cold air would get on her chest' and so had to be slopped out twice a day.

Money was already tight... then dad had to go on strike.  Mum asked my gran for more money, but was met with a tirade of abuse.  I don't know how/why, but mum looked in gran's handbag and found rolls of £ notes - more money than we could dream of at the time!  Bearing in mind that average life span back then was barely 70, and that my gran was pushing 80, she said that mum couldn't have any more money 'because she was saving it for her old age'. 

Cue big bust up which ended with gran going to live with mum's younger sister and her family.  Funny old thing, but not long after auntie had a home phone fitted (rare in those days) and they bought a nearly new car........ 

macman

JReacher1 said:

macman said:

JReacher1 said:

macman said:

JReacher1 said:

macman said:

JReacher1 said:

And of that £134 a week the OP wants to take £100 of it

No.He said £400pm, which is £92.30pw. 
Her income is not £134pw, iI's that plus her work pension (unknown but let's say £19pw) and savings interest (maybe £15pw. ). Total £168pw.
The OP is suggesting maybe £92pw, but appears open to compromise. The point is that there's a huge gulf between £92 and £19, and MIL doesn't seem prepared to offer a penny more than she's paying at present, which is clearly unsustainable. 
Her £1K doesn't just cover rent, it covers food, electricity, gas, water, insurance, phone, council tax... possibly transport...
What would you suggest is a reasonable compromise?

The majority of these figures are made up so are basically nonsense. 

Why is it unsustainable? The OP’s wife will have a view on the family finances and she is happy with the current arrangement. It seems only the OP has a problem with the current situation. 

Made up? I think not. In the absence of any actual figures from the OP, they are reasonable estimates based on the limited info we have. But they are the lowest her income can be-it could be higher, depending on the work pension. 
And you've not answered the question. Based on the only figures we do have, what is reasonable? 
PS: I see that the OP has now come back and given a figure of around £9K, which was roughly what I estimated it to be originally. That's £750pm, of which she is currently paying £83pm. Are you seriously suggesting that paying just 11% of her disposable income in return for 'full board and lodging' is equitable?

She owns a fifth of the house. 

No, she doesn't own any of the house. She gifted the OP and his wife £20K to purchase it. But if you feel, morally, she 'owns' 20% of it, then I'd happily concede that the rent component of her contribution can be reduced to 80% to reflect that. 
But that still doesn't make £19pw equitable.

You do like to make things up 😂

where does the OP say it was a gift?  The OP says she contributed £20k to the £100k purchase price. That is not a necessarily a gift. 

No not necessarily a gift. The OP simply said that she 'paid £20K towards the cost'. But neither has the OP said that it was a loan, or an advance payment intended to subsidise her living costs for the rest of her life. If that was the arrangement, then I think that the OP would have told us.
You informed us earlier that she 'owned a fifth of the house'. So who is making things up now?

macman

chubster said:

macman said:

Perhaps we can come at this from a different angle? The OP says his wages will be reduced by more than half-and he is the sole wage earner in the household. 
Could he tell us, if willing, how much loss this represents annually, then we are better equipped to see whether an increase in MIL's rent to £4.8K is too much, too little, or about right?

My wage will be around £16k after reduction in my hours

The OP's income has been reduced by £16K due to a halving of hours. That's over £1,300 per month. So, in these circumstances, is a rent increase to £400 really so unreasonable? Yes, it is a huge leap from £83, but that is only because the figure has remained at an unfeasibly low level for a decade.

maman

chubster said:

maman said:

I think some posters (probably me included) were wondering whether MIL saw the £20K she  gave originally as a sort of advance payment of rent which then allowed OP to buy the house. I don't think she does own part of the house. 

MIL's name is not on the deeds but yes you might be right in that she maybe feels that she has paid her dues 'up front' if you like.

I think it's very possible that MIL thinks she's paid a lot of 'rent' upfront. She's maybe lost touch a bit with prices but I can understand in principle. 

mobileron

Time u put her in a care home?

Retireinten

I've read this thread through and I'm a bit confused how much your MIL pays each week, it states £1k per annum (£19 a week) but there's also talk of £3k (£60 a week - is this the £20k divided by 10 years?) . I ask for clarity because I would say the higher figure is closer to the contribution you should be asking for.

Let's say the £20k she gifted offsets the fact you're in a bigger house with higher council tax and maintenance costs. Let's even assume this covers her 'rent' contribution too. So the £1k is her contribution to food and running costs. 

Doing an SOA with your wife to work out how you address the salary reduction is a really good idea. You  need to protect any retirement savings for yourself as a priority, you're part of a team and have every right to want to retire at some point, so this should not be sacrificed.  Then work out the options for adjusting your lifestyle from there. The options I see are:

- Downsize the lifestyle of all three of you. So spend significantly less on food, manage your heating bills, reduce your TV package, minimise journeys in the car, reduce personal spend and spend on entertainment and holidays. What are you all prepared to sacrifice to balance the household books? 

- MIL contributes a bit more,  but I do think £100 a week is on the high side. From the SOA you can work out the bills that can be reasonably split three ways... She should pay a third of the food, (including cleaning/household) bills (less any spends on things that are specifically yours such as alcohol) and a third of all utilities expect council tax in my view. Plus a sundry amount to cover her car journeys etc. 

- Wife gets herself a part time job to increase your household income. You getting a second job should come after this.. remember you're a team and the loss in income needs to be addressed by the two of you especially if she is reluctant to ask her mum for more of a contribution.  

- Seriously consider options for downsize. Is it feasible to downsize to a house the three of you could live in or would it have to be a separate house to your MIL?   Because I doubt the latter will wash with your wife after all these years (and I'd feel the same way). 

To be honest, I wouldn't use downsize as an option as such... this needs to be the action you will no choice but to take if the three of you can't reach a compromise between reduced lifestyle, increased contribution from MIL and increased earnings. 

Create the SOA, go through the details with your wife and work out what your next steps could be.  

chubster

GreenQueen said:

Does MIL get attendance allowance? My 80 year old DM does, the forms were a bit lengthy, but not difficult and I think for someone over 80 the lower level (£50ish a week) is granted fairly automatically. That money is for supporting their living - cleaning, care, etc. May be worth looking into.

No, she doesn't have any healthcare issues at all so would not qualify for anything.