Can you make someone else lose weight?

Anoneemoose

meer53 wrote: »

So, i lose weight by following SW, i don't restrict calories, i eat a healthy variety of foods, including chocolate, crisps etc. It works. If i followed the same principles without mentioning SW, it would still work, i'd just call it mindful eating. Sorted.

SW is calorie restriction. Just like any calorie restriction it will 'work' for as long as you can stick to it. See previous posts as to why that's impossible for 80/95% of people.

Mindfulness, or Intuitive eating in the way that I am referring to it doesn't have weight loss as its goal. Although, as I said earlier, I have no doubt there will be people who do use it as such.

SW has its restrictions. Intuitive eating has NO restrictions. Therefore no, your comparison is futile.

Once again, SW 'worked' for YOU, the minority.

Now it's 'sorted'

FBaby

And that's why I said physically hungry. If you listen to physical hunger then your body won't have you eat more than you need. It really is that good.

So how do you know when you are physical hungry vs psychologically hungry? Because trust that your brain does an amazing job at deceiving you especially when it suits to believe it is physical hunger.

Your body/brain will tell you exactly what it needs to keep you within your set point range.

Surely if this was correct and people only ate when they were physically hungry, so only when they need food rather than want, surely no-one would be overweight, let alone obese. Why would people eat biscuits, drink soft drinks, and even drink alcohol if we listened to our body and only ingested what our body asked? Your theory doesn't make any sense.

FBaby

SW is calorie restriction. Just like any calorie restriction it will 'work' for as long as you can stick to it.

Exactly, and that's where changing habit and willpower comes into it. What SW teaches you is that to maintain weight, you need to accept that life is about constantly watching what you eat. It doesn't matter how you do it, but you are unlikely to maintain a good weight by never thinking about what you eat.

One point that I think is often forgotten about losing weight is that the successful people are often relatively invisible.

The other point is that it is almost systematically assumed that people who are slim are so because they are 'lucky', rather than because they constantly apply the principle of dieting.

If I listen to my body and ate when I think I'm hungry, I would without a hint of a doubt be overweight. I was a very chubby child because of bad habits my parents didn't challenge, so I had to learn to manage my weight myself in my 20s. It's been a constant necessity since, but I don't see it as something that ruins my life, just another duty of life that I would rather not do, like going to work or doing the cleaning, chores that are not fun but do pay off. I'm so used to it now that it's not as demanding or stressful as it used to be. Saying that, the big M is coming, so I am aware that the challenge gets harder so I had to restrict my acceptable zone as any weight above it will be much harder to lose than it used to be. I might put on some weight anyway and if I do, I won't beat myself up for it, but will certainly continue to do all I can to remain within a healthy range.

Anoneemoose

FBaby wrote: »

So how do you know when you are physical hungry vs psychologically hungry? Because trust that your brain does an amazing job at deceiving you especially when it suits to believe it is physical hunger.

You (re)learn to recognise the difference. And it can be done. It isn't always easy or quick, if you have used 'rules' to eat by. Here's a link. There is picture half way down showing the difference. I have not looked at the rest of the page so I am not 'advocating' it or anything, purely just to show the illustration.

https://goqii.com/blog/tag/emotional-eating-vs-mindful-eating/

Surely if this was correct and people only ate when they were physically hungry, so only when they need food rather than want, surely no-one would be overweight, let alone obese. Why would people eat biscuits, drink soft drinks, and even drink alcohol if we listened to our body and only ingested what our body asked? Your theory doesn't make any sense.

Because it's ok to want to eat and drink those things and food is supposed to a pleasure, not a chore. But as these things can be less nutritious, your body recognises that. Just an example, I was recently under the weather with some of my many ailments, and as such, ended up living on toast or crusty bread with butter for a few days because they were easy, and did the job of fuelling me enough to get through the day. By the time I recovered, I was craving veg and protein. And yes, my theory does make sense. As described in the video I linked to, controlled eaters tend to be overweight/obese. Intuitive eaters don't.

My parents are a great example. Both never dieted, both slim. I also have 2 sisters. One has never dieted and is slim. The other and I have both dieted and yoyoed.


I am not very good at quoting these things so some of my answer is in your quote!

Anoneemoose

FBaby wrote: »

Exactly, and that's where changing habit and willpower comes into it. What SW teaches you is that to maintain weight, you need to accept that life is about constantly watching what you eat. It doesn't matter how you do it, but you are unlikely to maintain a good weight by never thinking about what you eat.

The other point is that it is almost systematically assumed that people who are slim are so because they are 'lucky', rather than because they constantly apply the principle of dieting.

If I listen to my body and ate when I think I'm hungry, I would without a hint of a doubt be overweight. I was a very chubby child because of bad habits my parents didn't challenge, so I had to learn to manage my weight myself in my 20s. It's been a constant necessity since, but I don't see it as something that ruins my life, just another duty of life that I would rather not do, like going to work or doing the cleaning, chores that are not fun but do pay off. I'm so used to it now that it's not as demanding or stressful as it used to be. Saying that, the big M is coming, so I am aware that the challenge gets harder so I had to restrict my acceptable zone as any weight above it will be much harder to lose than it used to be. I might put on some weight anyway and if I do, I won't beat myself up for it, but will certainly continue to do all I can to remain within a healthy range.

I don't know whether this makes me sad or more angry (not at you). "Life is about constantly watching what you eat"...if you cannot see what's wrong with that statement then I feel for you. And please don't think I am patronising you. It's genuine. Life is about so much more than watching what you eat.

I will reiterate, mindfulness and eating intuitively does not have the aim of weight loss. A lot of people will lose weight when practising it, but a lot of people won't. And that is generally (but not always) directly related to how much dieting someone has previously done. As I mentioned, I haven't lost weight (I am totally ok with that now). What is interesting is that my weight has stabilised long term for the first time in 20 years, without me doing anything (apart from practising mindfulness for the most part). There are times when I eat more than I am hungry for. And that's ok.

The reason people think they will pile weight on if they switch to mindful is because they don't trust that they won't eat their own body weight in chocolate/cheese/crisps or whatever their 'thing' is. And at first, you might rebel and eat nothing but those things, but I assure you that doesn't last. I did it myself..I was the same, thinking 'this won't work, this is silly sort of thing.

Once again. Willpower will only take you so far.

FBaby

Just an example, I was recently under the weather with some of my many ailments, and as such, ended up living on toast or crusty bread with butter for a few days because they were easy, and did the job of fuelling me enough to get through the day. By the time I recovered, I was craving veg and protein. And yes, my theory does make sense.

And I can give you the exact opposite. After I do an intensive work out, the last thing I want to do is eat. The thought of it actually makes want to gag, yet I know my body needs food to replenish itself. Similarly, when I have been through extreme stress/anxiety, my body shuts down and I can hardly put a piece of food in my mouth, yet I probably need more nutrients than ever. Funily, the times I feel like eating most is when I'm on holiday, relaxing and doing nothing, ie. when I should actually cut down!

As described in the video I linked to, controlled eaters tend to be overweight/obese. Intuitive eaters don't.

Again, not my experience at all. I am known to be a control freak, which is actually causing me some issues, but one think that it does me good is to control my food intake. The one time my weight went totally out of control is when I was pregnant and I stupidly adhered to the 'you're pregnant so it's ok to eat what you like'. Boy did I do that, and put on 3 1/2 stones (was 8 stones to start with!). So much for intuitive eating! Thankfully I was young then, so manage to lose it all within 12 months, but I know that if I ate as much as I think my body is telling me to be ok, I would be obese, not one bit of a doubt.

I do strongly believe that managing weight is a very personal matter and what works for one won't work for someone else, so it's about testing what is best for you as a person. However, the facts remain the facts that you will be overweight if you eat more than you burn and that most people are overweight because of their choices they make themselves, not because of external factors (except those with recognised medical conditions of course).

Anoneemoose

FBaby wrote: »

And I can give you the exact opposite. After I do an intensive work out, the last thing I want to do is eat. The thought of it actually makes want to gag, yet I know my body needs food to replenish itself. Similarly, when I have been through extreme stress/anxiety, my body shuts down and I can hardly put a piece of food in my mouth, yet I probably need more nutrients than ever. Funily, the times I feel like eating most is when I'm on holiday, relaxing and doing nothing, ie. when I should actually cut down!


Again, not my experience at all. I am known to be a control freak, which is actually causing me some issues, but one think that it does me good is to control my food intake. The one time my weight went totally out of control is when I was pregnant and I stupidly adhered to the 'you're pregnant so it's ok to eat what you like'. Boy did I do that, and put on 3 1/2 stones (was 8 stones to start with!). So much for intuitive eating! Thankfully I was young then, so manage to lose it all within 12 months, but I know that if I ate as much as I think my body is telling me to be ok, I would be obese, not one bit of a doubt.

I do strongly believe that managing weight is a very personal matter and what works for one won't work for someone else, so it's about testing what is best for you as a person. However, the facts remain the facts that you will be overweight if you eat more than you burn and that most people are overweight because of their choices they make themselves, not because of external factors (except those with recognised medical conditions of course).

I actually think your first response just proves my point. What you mentioned about you eating more when pregnant was not intuitive eating - it was more likely a knee jerk reaction to the fact you had previously restricted your food intake somehow.

Not a workout because I can't anymore. But because of my ailments, I often feel nauseated and don't want to eat, but my body needs nourishment. And I get like that with anxiety too. When that happens, I just 'do what I can' so to speak. That generally takes the form of eating little now and then. I too am a control freak..I have OCD (not what is commonly thought of by OCD like excess cleaning though), and that leads to perfectionism. You won't believe it, but apart from our different childhoods in relation to food, you sound a lot like me.

And, why would need to cut down on holiday?? That's diet speak. Since I have stopped dieting, I have had 4 holidays and 2 Christmases. And for the first time for as long as I can remember, all of those occasions have not been consumed by guilt or worry. And I have enjoyed all sorts of delicious foods. I don't ever weigh myself now, but my clothes never feel any tighter so I don't think I gain weight at these times.

I agree that managing weight is a personal thing. My main reason for debating this much is because of the way my point of view is jumped upon because I don't agree with SW (or any dieting).

I know you believe that you would be obese if you are mindfully and I don't think I can convince you otherwise. That's not my place. Only thing I can say is I thought that once too.

jayII

Anoneemoose wrote: »

I actually think your first response just proves my point. What you mentioned about you eating more when pregnant was not intuitive eating - it was more likely a knee jerk reaction to the fact you had previously restricted your food intake somehow.

Not a workout because I can't anymore. But because of my ailments, I often feel nauseated and don't want to eat, but my body needs nourishment. And I get like that with anxiety too. When that happens, I just 'do what I can' so to speak. That generally takes the form of eating little now and then. I too am a control freak..I have OCD (not what is commonly thought of by OCD like excess cleaning though), and that leads to perfectionism. You won't believe it, but apart from our different childhoods in relation to food, you sound a lot like me.

And, why would need to cut down on holiday?? That's diet speak. Since I have stopped dieting, I have had 4 holidays and 2 Christmases. And for the first time for as long as I can remember, all of those occasions have not been consumed by guilt or worry. And I have enjoyed all sorts of delicious foods. I don't ever weigh myself now, but my clothes never feel any tighter so I don't think I gain weight at these times.

I agree that managing weight is a personal thing. My main reason for debating this much is because of the way my point of view is jumped upon because I don't agree with SW (or any dieting).

I know you believe that you would be obese if you are mindfully and I don't think I can convince you otherwise. That's not my place. Only thing I can say is I thought that once too.

I've never spent a Christmas / other special occasion feeling consumed by guilt about my eating. I just relax, enjoy the occasion and deal with any weight gain afterwards, in a matter-of-fact way such as FBaby is describing. There isn't usually much, if any weight gain anyway because I stick loosely to SW principles, enjoy my food and relax/don't worry about it. The fact that you have previously found special occasion foods to be guilt inducing says more about your issues with food than about anything else.

BTW, I have tried intuitive eating in the past, got fully into it and (to give it a proper chance) stuck with it for a year or so. I put on 3-4 stone of excess weight over that year. Since I'd also gained a couple of stones over a couple of years following a very traumatic event before that. I tried intuitive eating thinking it would stop the gain increasing further!!! I did all the 'right' things--found a recommended therapist and so on, but I shudder to think what my weight would be now if I'd continued with that approach to eating.

The weight is slowly coming off, courtesy of SW. I've joined, left and rejoined a few times, depending on what else is happening in my life and the weight I lose each time mostly stays off, so I'm gradually getting back to a weight I feel comfortable with. Living with 6 stones of extra weight certainly does not work for me!

So whilst you're happy with intuitive/mindful eating and are happy to remain in the 'obese' category, IE does not work for everyone.

getmore4less

Mindful intuitive eating is watching what you eat just different to other ways.

theoretica

Anoneemoose wrote: »

I agree that managing weight is a personal thing.

I fully agree with that! The thing that really annoys me about this thread are the number of posters telling me what and how I should be thinking. It is very easy to want to share something that has worked well for you, but this can end up putting down what has worked for other people, being perceived as claiming they are wrong that something else works for them or assuming that what works for you will work for them too.

I do believe it is possible for nearly everyone to control their weight. I do not presume that any other person should think about it in the same ways that I do.