Can you make someone else lose weight?

urbanlegend11

Anoneemoose wrote: »

See my previous post. Dieters do not 'fail' at dieting, the diets fail them. And the research that shows diets don't work show that the reason they don't is more than 'willpower'.

You can research set point weight in relation to dieting which will explain better than me.

You REALLY think that between 80% and 95% of the people who don't have success are uneducated, have no willpower or are just plain greedy?

YES! That's EXACTLY why they have no success for the very reason that they are uneducated, have no will power and/or are greedy.

Anoneemoose

urbanlegend11 wrote: »

YES! That's EXACTLY why they have no success for the very reason that they are uneducated, have no will power and/or are greedy.

Even though science shows it's nothing to do with willpower? And you think every person that diets is uneducated. My last GP used to follow SW. His weight was up and down like a yoyo. He even admitted he wished he'd never started.

As I linked to in a previous post:

https://youtu.be/jn0Ygp7pMbA

FBaby

See my previous post. Dieters do not 'fail' at dieting, the diets fail them. And the research that shows diets don't work show that the reason they don't is more than 'willpower'.

You are talking about dieting as you would talk about a pill, that works or doesn't work. This is why it fails for people like you. A 'diet' is just name, not a treatment or cure. It's a fancy name to say eating less of healthy food, that's it. A diet can't fail you because it's not intended to be successful or a failure.

Yes, willpower is a massive part of managing a healthy weight. Willpower is a complex psychological process though, so again, it's not like a pill you pop in that means that suddenly you have willpower. Some people are born with a stronger ability to fight temptation and others have have trained from an early age to do so.

Add to this the fact that there are biological and genetic factors that will contribute -but rarely cause- weight fluctuation, and the whole process of keeping a healthy weight is much more than just whether diets work or don't work.

I’ve learned that three meals a day are too much for me. Eating by the clock rather than need led to a gain of two stone

Both my OH and I are a good weight and always have been yet our eating habits couldn't be more different! He is a typical three meals a day, good ratio of carbs/proteins, low sugar etc..., he is the perfect dietitian model of healthy eating! I'm an emotional eater, eat for comfort but extremely well regulated blood sugar so a 5:2 type of eating lifestyle is what works for me. What works for me is to give myself ranges and weight myself regularly. If I hit a certain weight, I know I need to gear towards more of the 2 than the 5. When my weight is under my acceptable weight, I can do more of the 5 than the 2! It works for me!

FBaby

Even though science shows it's nothing to do with willpower?

How can it not be? It's either habit or willpower. It used to be a case of good habits, when portions were naturally smaller, snacks were not so easily available and were rare treats rather than part of people every day food intake. No soft drinks, no gorging on biscuits, not take away etc...

Because all of the above is now available and therefore bad habits are part of our society, it only comes down to willpower to fight the temptation that is in front of us all the time.

I really do think that the biggest culprit in our society is portion sizes. People think they don't eat so bad because what they eat is not that unhealthy, but they don't realise that eating 3 or 4 times the acceptable portion is going to make people put on weight.

I thought I was quite reasonably educated when it comes to calories etc... but what a shock going to those restaurants when they actually write down the calories of each meal on their menu. Even the healthiest meals will easily take you to 1000 calories with starters. That's half of what is normally recommended. You could have the same meal with half the size and make it 500 calories, still satisfying, enough energy for your body and that would indeed be 1 meal out of 3 (with the rest of the 500 calories being tea with milk, one snack, a couple of fruits).

Anoneemoose

FBaby wrote: »

How can it not be? It's either habit or willpower. It used to be a case of good habits, when portions were naturally smaller, snacks were not so easily available and were rare treats rather than part of people every day food intake. No soft drinks, no gorging on biscuits, not take away etc...

Because all of the above is now available and therefore bad habits are part of our society, it only comes down to willpower to fight the temptation that is in front of us all the time.

I really do think that the biggest culprit in our society is portion sizes. People think they don't eat so bad because what they eat is not that unhealthy, but they don't realise that eating 3 or 4 times the acceptable portion is going to make people put on weight.

I thought I was quite reasonably educated when it comes to calories etc... but what a shock going to those restaurants when they actually write down the calories of each meal on their menu. Even the healthiest meals will easily take you to 1000 calories with starters. That's half of what is normally recommended. You could have the same meal with half the size and make it 500 calories, still satisfying, enough energy for your body and that would indeed be 1 meal out of 3 (with the rest of the 500 calories being tea with milk, one snack, a couple of fruits).

Have you watched the video I linked to? That explains why it's not willpower. And it's a neuroscientist who gives the talk.

Acceptable portions?? Surely what's acceptable is what your body is actually hungry for? If you are physically hungry, that's your body's way of tellingyou it needs nourishment and fuel. So you should feed it. If you constantly eat past fullness, you will likely gain weight. And the people who generally eat past fullness are dieters because they are taught not to trust their own body's internal signals, instead following some aribtary set of rules.

When I dieted, I would go to a restaurant and pretty much eat everything put in front of me, often making myself ill. Because 'oh well, I've brokeny diet anyway by having some chips' sort if thing. (And I appreciate not everyone will be like that, but I bet if you asked a lot of dietrs they will say they same sort of thing). Now I don't diet, I don't count calories or 'watch my portions', I will only eat what I need. Usually leaving quite a lot. Or sometimes ordering a kid's portion because that's all I am hungry for. To a certaint extent I agree about portion sizes, but that doesn't mean we should be following set rules about them.

Apologies for typing errors, no glasses on!

Tabbytabitha

FBaby wrote: »

You are talking about dieting as you would talk about a pill, that works or doesn't work. This is why it fails for people like you. A 'diet' is just name, not a treatment or cure. It's a fancy name to say eating less of healthy food, that's it. A diet can't fail you because it's not intended to be successful or a failure.

Yes, willpower is a massive part of managing a healthy weight. Willpower is a complex psychological process though, so again, it's not like a pill you pop in that means that suddenly you have willpower. Some people are born with a stronger ability to fight temptation and others have have trained from an early age to do so.

Add to this the fact that there are biological and genetic factors that will contribute -but rarely cause- weight fluctuation, and the whole process of keeping a healthy weight is much more than just whether diets work or don't work.


Both my OH and I are a good weight and always have been yet our eating habits couldn't be more different! He is a typical three meals a day, good ratio of carbs/proteins, low sugar etc..., he is the perfect dietitian model of healthy eating! I'm an emotional eater, eat for comfort but extremely well regulated blood sugar so a 5:2 type of eating lifestyle is what works for me. What works for me is to give myself ranges and weight myself regularly. If I hit a certain weight, I know I need to gear towards more of the 2 than the 5. When my weight is under my acceptable weight, I can do more of the 5 than the 2! It works for me!

pollypenny wrote: »

Absolutely. I’ve learned that three meals a day are too much for me. Eating by the clock rather than need led to a gain of two stone.

After 5-6 months of 5:2 I lost them, although my original target was 21lbs, I know maintain on 16:8. It’s a way of life and no problem. Three coffees in the morning, then lunch at 1. Dinner at 6.30 or so.

I agree with nearly all of this but I'm surprised that you have a greater proportion of fasting days now that you're maintaining than you did when losing weight. Have I misunderstood something?

gardner1

Just say " Fat ba5tard lose weight or no nookie"

Pollycat

Anoneemoose wrote: »

Even though science shows it's nothing to do with willpower? And you think every person that diets is uneducated. My last GP used to follow SW. His weight was up and down like a yoyo. He even admitted he wished he'd never started.

As I linked to in a previous post:

https://youtu.be/jn0Ygp7pMbA

I think you're blinded by the 'science' you keep going on about.

Anoneemoose wrote: »

When I dieted, I would go to a restaurant and pretty much eat everything put in front of me, often making myself ill. Because 'oh well, I've brokeny diet anyway by having some chips' sort if thing. (And I appreciate not everyone will be like that, but I bet if you asked a lot of dietrs they will say they same sort of thing). Now I don't diet, I don't count calories or 'watch my portions', I will only eat what I need. Usually leaving quite a lot. Or sometimes ordering a kid's portion because that's all I am hungry for. To a certaint extent I agree about portion sizes, but that doesn't mean we should be following set rules about them.

Apologies for typing errors, no glasses on!

You clearly had an issue with food and with that mentality in bold above I can totally understand why any diet would never work for you.

getmore4less

Anoneemoose wrote: »

Have you watched the video I linked to? That explains why it's not willpower. And it's a neuroscientist who gives the talk.

Acceptable portions?? Surely what's acceptable is what your body is actually hungry for? If you are physically hungry, that's your body's way of tellingyou it needs nourishment and fuel. So you should feed it. If you constantly eat past fullness, you will likely gain weight. And the people who generally eat past fullness are dieters because they are taught not to trust their own body's internal signals, instead following some aribtary set of rules.

When I dieted, I would go to a restaurant and pretty much eat everything put in front of me, often making myself ill. Because 'oh well, I've brokeny diet anyway by having some chips' sort if thing. (And I appreciate not everyone will be like that, but I bet if you asked a lot of dietrs they will say they same sort of thing). Now I don't diet, I don't count calories or 'watch my portions', I will only eat what I need. Usually leaving quite a lot. Or sometimes ordering a kid's portion because that's all I am hungry for. To a certaint extent I agree about portion sizes, but that doesn't mean we should be following set rules about them.

Apologies for typing errors, no glasses on!

The in lies a big problem.

There are foods that trigger the hunger response rather than turn it off, and a lot of them tend to get eaten when "hungry" so you get into a cycle.

on top of that you have when eating the turn off trigger happens too late to stop you when you have had enough, which will in many cases be well before you feel anywhere near satisfied never mind "full".

Sometimes the hunger/craving are triggered by something lacking in the diet, you won't know what and if you don't supply it you don't turn that response off and keep eating.

if you identify the foods that leave you wanting more soon after along with those that leave you feeling ok for longer you can adapt quite quickly and you end up eating less and get out of the habit of snacking.

lack of portion control also has a habitual mechanism especially if you like to eat till "full", not easy for everyone but just stop stuffing it in a bit earlier.

Any changes need to be considered within the daily regime and when your energy use is, if you have busy mornings and have not had a decent breakfast you are going to feel like snacks and quite possibly overeat at lunch.


Every time you feel you need to eat something think about the last thing you had and how long ago it was, look for the pattern.

If you are on set meal time and don't snack, then if you don't get that I am ready to eat now feeling when the next one is due then you can probably cut back a bit on the portion.

Anoneemoose

Pollycat wrote: »

I think you're blinded by the 'science' you keep going on about.

You clearly had an issue with food and with that mentality in bold above I can totally understand why any diet would never work for you.

You mean blinkered by facts? Um, ok. If that's how you want to put it, fair enough, yep, I am blinkered by science. Have you got anything to counteract my science?

And the behaviour I mentioned above ONLY happened BECAUSE of dieting. Not sure how many ways you want me to explain that before you take it on board and accept it.

Until I dieted, I never had any issues with food. And I ONLY dieted because I didn't lose my first baby weight 'quick enough' (whatever quick enough is). Had I known better, I would have gone back to 'normal' and the weight likely would have levelled itself. Instead I was told to try dieting (by a doctor). And then, and only then, my problems began.