Am I being too selfish?

fab_and_frugal

Thanks FBaby, yes it has been well researched and worked out - as I said in my original post, it's something I (or as I thought, we) have been planning for over 30 years so it's not a back of a fag packet whim or anything. The only variable really is whether we would actually be accepted, we have a very good chance on paper due to our skills, experience, financial situation etc but these things are often down to the luck of the draw and there is no way of knowing for sure until you're in the pool of applications, which we're obviously not.
I wasn't looking for advice on how to convince my OH to go as he's made it very clear that - whatever my reasoning or argument - he's not interested and will not leave the UK under any circumstances.
I was wondering if others thought - as he has told me - that I am selfish for wanting to go when he doesn't, even though I'm only just finding out that he has misled me for all these years by going along with the dreams and planning only to tell me the truth now.
xx

happyandcontented

You have been very honest here, or so it seems. I suppose it comes down to whether you want to/can save your marriage or whether the end has been reached. If it is the latter, then you have only yourself to please, so can go for your long held dream. Only you can answer whether the price of your dream is worth paying.

FBaby

I wasn't looking for advice on how to convince my OH to go as he's made it very clear that - whatever my reasoning or argument - he's not interested and will not leave the UK under any circumstances.

I think that's much more the issue then trying to ascertain whether you are selfish or not. The reality is that both of you are since both of you are considering your own desire other that of the other. The question is whether having to resort to being selfish is the only way forward.

You said it made it clear that he won't move. Is that over one conversation, or many? Because one conversation doesn't mean much really, he might have responded in fear/anger and therefore instinctively rather than having thought it though. In this case, there might more to be discussed.

If however he has said that there is no way he will consider moving after the matter was brought up a few times calmly, when you showed him how you have worked out that you could be happy together there, then indeed, nothing more you can do then decide whether to sacrifice your dream or your marriage.

moneyistooshorttomention

From an earlier comment of yours - it sounds like the relationship between you would never have got serious enough to progress to marriage in the first place if he had been straight with you about this from the outset.

To me - that sounds like he thought he could "have his cake and eat it". That being to get you as a wife (when he already knew about your plans) and to stay put. Trying to reconcile two things that were both important to him and that, ultimately, may not be able to be reconciled.

I must admit that I'd only heard of this sort of thing before in the context of someone (most likely the woman) wanting children and marrying a partner they knew didnt - but being prepared to lie to (or pressurise) the partner in an attempt to have both.

But - this is what it looks like to me. So, to me, it sounds like he was the one that was selfish and has been misleading you all along (right the way from before you married him). He should have been straight with you at the outset and said "Both you and Britain are very important to me and I don't wish to have to choose between them. So it's your choice as to whether it's going to be Canada or me - as I feel strongly about not leaving Britain. I do hope you'll choose me".

To me - I would make plans for myself (and the children - if they personally wish to) to move there for what I would regard as a trial period of, say, one year. Maybe two years. On getting there - I'd get on and Make A Life for myself. The "door would be open" for him to come and join in and also Make A Life with you for himself. It would be his choice as to whether to walk through that door or no. If he does walk through it - then he really loves you and the marriage has a chance. If his choice is to stay with his country (rather than his wife) then he has shown he loves his country most.

It does sound like he has deliberately been stringing you along for years and burying his head in the sand - and just hoped you'd run out of impetus to continue with your plans/adapt to Britain enough to change your mind about wanting to go.

Either way - if a country is "in your heart" then it's in your heart and it will be "your home" in your heart - even if you've not been there for x years. So I guess it could be even if you've never actually lived there. Make sure your view of how the country (in this case Canada) is an up-to-date one. Things change. I'm English - and England is "in my heart". But, basically, what I mean by that is England circa, say, 1960-2000. A lot has changed in that part of the country in recent years and it's not for the better...

It may (probably will) take some time adapting when you get there. Sometimes people will immediately say "I love it here" somewhere else (I'm not convinced of instant "falling in love" :cool: - but I may be wrong). Others will find the first couple of years or so hard going - but then see the "plus sides" (whilst still being perfectly open about the things that arent right and/or they dont feel comfortable with). It probably depends on the person.

Don't just look at the picture you have had in your mind of Canada all along. How is Canada in 2017? How do you estimate Canada will be for the next 50 years or so (bearing in mind your childrens lifespans)? Is it the "present and future Canada" that you want?

In your case - if you do go there - then regard it as a trial period even in your own mind. That's in case it really isnt all you imagined it would be from afar - and the door is open to come back here and re-unite with your husband.

FBaby

it sounds like the relationship between you would never have got serious enough to progress to marriage in the first place if he had been straight with you about this from the outset.

I didn't get that feeling. Yes, OP expressed her desire to live in Canada, but I didn't get that she would have told her OH to get lost if he'd said it was unlikely he would ever move.

Also, I don't think you can expect people to not change their minds over something 30 years later. Many things happen during that time that can change your perspective on your plans in life.

OP's OH did wrong by not being more honest with her when he came to realisation that he would never wish to move rather than hope that someone, OP would change her mind. It is interesting that he would envisage that she might do though as it is certainly coming across that OP never feltered from that goal.

Again, he might have just accepted the inevitable, but decided to push it as far as possible so to make the best of what for him was a perfect life.

It's not a case of who is to blame, just an acceptance that sometimes, couples move on their separate ways when it comes to what they want in life. It's all a case of weighting what there is to lose against what there is to gain.

Jackieboy

fab_and_frugal wrote: »

Thanks so much everyone! So many replies and opinions, all very much appreciated.
For those of you asking - my desired destination is Canada - I wasn't trying to hide it, just didn't really think it was relevant and didn't want to get into the discussion of how hard it is to get in etc, all of which I know as it has been well researched.
I have been over a lot of times over my life, and it's always felt like "home" which is a feeling I've never had in the UK, even when I had family here. Not a very scientific explanation I admit, but a gut feeling and one I've never been able to shake. First visited 31 years ago and from the minute I stepped off the plane I knew I wanted to live there. I have tried to shake it, to lose it, to make the UK feel like "home" but it just hasn't happened. I can't explain it, it just is. I am however under no illusions that it is some sort of utopia.
My children first visited 10 years ago and have been talking about living there ever since. Much of it unprompted, and I have absolutely not tried to manipulate them into going, on the contrary I have explained to them the upheaval, how it might not work out etc etc. I'm not an idiot and know from family who have gone there (although "distant" as one poster has said, they are cousins and aunts and uncles who I am very close with, my parents and grandparents have passed on and I have no siblings but I have always been close with my cousins who are like brothers and sisters to me, I consider their children my nieces and nephews) that it is not always rosy, that work still needs done, bills still need paid and so on - I don't for a second think that I am going there to lie on a beach all day drinking cocktails, far from it.
As for OH's family, we have spoken to them over the years about going and not only do they support us but they have indicated many times that should we go, they would apply to go too (both parents retired) or at the very least would spend as much time as visas would allow over there with us, so I am not taking OH away from his parents or suggesting anything like it.
I'd also really really like to live somewhere that has proper seasons and where there is a temperature difference of more than 10 degrees between summer and winter, where it doesn't rain 300 days a year and where there are more than a handful of blue sky days even if it is bitterly cold.
My original post was asking if I was selfish, not whether I was right in wanting to emigrate or not, but I do appreciate everyone's advice and I'm very much aware that it might be a difficult move, emotionally and financially.
As I said, my children are the priority in this - I want them to have good prospects, to have a better quality of life, to be able to have their own home before their late thirties (what is the average age of first time home ownership in the UK? 39 or something?). Would I go without them? TBH it's not really something I considered as I know they want to go too, and they've actually said that if Canada don't accept us we should think of alternatives.
I know they will go their own way in life and would never consider holding them back for a second, but I do think I am much more likely to "lose" them if we stay in the UK as they will go off and emigrate on their own. Although they said they won't go without me, it would really upset me if I thought they didn't spread their wings just because of me.
Although it's a great idea to live between the two places it's not possible due to still needing to work til retirement which is at least 20 years hence. I have suggested we have a trial of a couple of years where we rent out our house so we have the option to come back if we can't settle but OH says no to that too.
I'd still rather we went as a family with my OH (assuming we get accepted) but he's refusing to even discuss it any more. Contrary to what maybe came out in my original post, I do still love my husband which is why I've not just upped and left already. He thinks I'm being selfish for wanting to move away and I just wondered how it seemed to others.
BTW I never ever nag, which is probably to my detriment and how I find myself in this sorry position. I do honestly believe if I had known my OH's true feelings 30 years ago our relationship wouldn't have become a serious one. But that's hindsight so not very practical or helpful now, just answering the poster who asked.
Thanks again everyone, I hope this answers all the questions.
xx

If you've always wanted to move to Canada (even before you were married) why didn't you do it when you were young with no ties?

Mojisola

fab_and_frugal wrote: »

OH and I have been together for over 30 years, since we were at school. Married for most of that time, kids grown up and all at university.

Jackieboy wrote: »

If you've always wanted to move to Canada (even before you were married) why didn't you do it when you were young with no ties?

Difficult to emigrate when you are a school kid.

mai_taylor

I don't think you realize what a huge thing you are asking of your husband, you've made a life here for 30 years, can't you understand why he wouldn't want to leave that? It's fair enough discussing pipe dreams but as time passed maybe he thought you were content to still be living here after all if you really wanted to move that much you wouldn't still be here would you? I think there's got to be serious problems in your marriage if you are considering this, I couldn't care less where I live as long as I live with my husband, if the though of living 1000's of miles away from him doesn't tear your heart out then that's your answer.

heartbreak_star

mai_taylor wrote: »

I don't think you realize what a huge thing you are asking of your husband, you've made a life here for 30 years, can't you understand why he wouldn't want to leave that? It's fair enough discussing pipe dreams but as time passed maybe he thought you were content to still be living here after all if you really wanted to move that much you wouldn't still be here would you? I think there's got to be serious problems in your marriage if you are considering this, I couldn't care less where I live as long as I live with my husband, if the though of living 1000's of miles away from him doesn't tear your heart out then that's your answer.

He should have really said something before now instead of stringing her along then.

HBS x

moneyistooshorttomention

mai_taylor wrote: »

I don't think you realize what a huge thing you are asking of your husband, you've made a life here for 30 years, can't you understand why he wouldn't want to leave that? It's fair enough discussing pipe dreams but as time passed maybe he thought you were content to still be living here after all if you really wanted to move that much you wouldn't still be here would you? I think there's got to be serious problems in your marriage if you are considering this, I couldn't care less where I live as long as I live with my husband, if the though of living 1000's of miles away from him doesn't tear your heart out then that's your answer.

I wouldnt agree with that.

I've seen some more "conventional" people try to get their way by "assuming" everything will be as they personally want. Then they "assume" some more. Then they act in accordance with that "assumption". Whilst, all the time, fully aware that other people have other opinions - but they are hoping to prevail by being so fixed in their "assumptions" that no-one dares to challenge them.

I've learnt (in a very different context) that the more conventional person really is sometimes aware of the different opinion of the person/people they are with - but think if they "assume" hard enough/for long enough and act accordingly that they will get their own way. It's a tactic to some people.

This may be what OP's hubby has been doing all these years.

Why should OP give in to hubby automatically? The reverse argument could be made that he should give in to her - or is there a sexist assumption going on here. Surely hubby should be equally torn at being somewhere different to his wife?