MSE News: BT to hike broadband and call prices and charge TV customers for BT Sport

meherenow

To all those wondering about whether there is a need to send the equipment back or being charged for it if cancelling because of the price increase I would say no, there is no NEED - but you may find (even when you are out of contract) that BT send a bag and a letter that is quite ambiguous but makes you believe that you MUST send it back. I had this a year or so ago last time I left BT, they sent me a very misleading email with the subject heading "You need to return your kit", but the body of the email stated was as follows: [FONT=&quot]

"We're sorry you no longer need your BT equipment. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If you've already sent your equipment back to us, you can ignore this email. We must still be processing the return in our warehouse. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If you haven't, and want to help us become a greener company and protect the environment, you can follow the instructions below to send it back for recycling. Many of our customers choose to do this."[/FONT]


Obviously being out of contract then any YouView+ box/router belongs to you without doubt, I was in month 13 of an 18 month contract when this all happens, so who knows, they vary their T&Cs as regularly as the pricing!

However it is buried in the terms and conditions that you will not pay any penalty if you leave because they increase the price.

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/lib/pdf/phonebroadbandterms.pdf

Clause 10b is the main one.

"You can cancel the agreement at any time, by giving us 30 days' notice, if we've increased the core charges or we've changed the charges, a service or these terms and conditions in a way that significantly disadvantages you. In this case you won't have to pay a fee for leaving early"

Clause 13 covers "Charges for ending the agreement early" and although it does not specifically mention clause 10b, I think they would be hard pushed to argue this would not be an unfair term and condition as 10b clearly states that "you won't have to pay a fee for leaving early" and this would surely relate to any "fee" they would want to levy for equipment?

Clause 23b would back this up:

"The equipment (except the software in it and any BT-owned equipment) belongs to you from when it’s delivered, unless you cancel a service during the cooling-off period. In this case we will still own the equipment and you must return it to us in line with clause 5."

Nowhere have I ever heard that the YouView+ box or router is the property of BT, so Clause 23b must apply.

Unlike Virgin say, who make no bones about the fact that you are just being loaned equipment and it belongs to them (same with the new Sky Q box I gather).

So I would query them if they say you must pay a penalty on the equipment - especially with that outrageous email heading I mentioned earlier.


EDIT: I'll edit this in, thanks to mac.d below for spotting it:

13 Charges for ending the agreement early

b Equipment: If you end a service during the minimum term and you haven't paid for any of the equipment in full, we may charge you the full price of the equipment (except in the circumstances listed in clause 13d).

d You won't have to pay the fees and charges referred to in clauses 13a, 13b and 13c if:
 you end a service under clause 17b as a result of changes that significantly disadvantage you;

17 How we can change a service, etc

b If we increase any of our core charges, or if we make any changes to a service, the charges (other than a core charge) or the terms and conditions of the agreement in a way that significantly disadvantages you.

darren72

meherenow wrote: »

To all those wondering about whether there is a need to send the equipment back...

Thank you very much for the detailed reply - It is appreciated.

My only issue now is if I can argue that I don't need the phone line (and the prepaid line rental) if I don't have the broadband services, and therefore my prepaid line rental should be refunded?

mac.d

Nice one meherenow, I'd thought that as JJ Egan explains, you'd only 'own' the equipment once your minimum term was up and wouldn't need to send it back then. But in addition to what you've quoted the charges section of their terms also states:

13 Charges for ending the agreement early

b Equipment: If you end a service during the minimum term and you haven't paid for any of the equipment in full, we may charge you the full price of the equipment (except in the circumstances listed in clause 13d).

d You won't have to pay the fees and charges referred to in clauses 13a, 13b and 13c if:
 you end a service under clause 17b as a result of changes that significantly disadvantage you;

17 How we can change a service, etc

b If we increase any of our core charges, or if we make any changes to a service, the charges (other than a core charge) or the terms and conditions of the agreement in a way that significantly disadvantages you.

Regards the advanced line saver, do a search in this forum for threads on it, its not generally refundable, but according to some previous posts I've read, some folk have pursued it as a complaint and managed to get their money back that way.

meherenow

darren72 wrote: »

Thank you very much for the detailed reply - It is appreciated.

My only issue now is if I can argue that I don't need the phone line (and the prepaid line rental) if I don't have the broadband services, and therefore my prepaid line rental should be refunded?

I would think that because line rental and broadband go hand in hand with BT and others that use BT/Openreach infrastructure then that will be a moot point - when you change broadband providers then the phone line will go too. Again, I feel they would be hard pushed if taken to the Ombudsman to get away with any shenanigans there. However the last time I left, in August 2015, the price increase was on the line rental and so I could cancel that, the fibre (relies on the line) and the TV (relies on the fibre/broadband).

Maybe this time they think they are being clever not raising the line rental and maybe they think they can hold people on that? I am actually back with BT again on the merry-go-round after defecting to Virgin last time, then got out of there after the price increase last September, so who knows. I spent ages haggling a decent deal for phone/fibre/4K TV from them (had to use their forum route when my package was far higher than they one I signed up for online) so it's a bit galling to be told its a certain price for 12 months and then a few months into the contract they are basically increasing mine by 10% if I include the BT Sport price in that.

So I am in two minds whether to run the gauntlet with them again - not got the official letter yet so some time left anyway.

To be honest, they can have their rubbish overheating crashing UHD box back, I still use the old YouView+ box from last time which is much more stable - the ONLY reason I went back with BT was for the 4K footy and that is not worth £2.50 + £3.50 of my money extra a month...

And I have my own router with Openreach modem anyway.


edit: When I think about it again, is it a separate agreement for every little service you take from them - one for line rental, one for broadband, one for TV, one for this, one for that? I keep going back to the thought that they are on slippy ground if they try to hold you to the line rental because it is not increasing.

meherenow

mac.d wrote: »

Nice one meherenow, I'd thought that as JJ Egan explains, you'd only 'own' the equipment once your minimum term was up and wouldn't need to send it back then. But in addition to what you've quoted the charges section of their terms also states:

13 Charges for ending the agreement early

b Equipment: If you end a service during the minimum term and you haven't paid for any of the equipment in full, we may charge you the full price of the equipment (except in the circumstances listed in clause 13d).

d You won't have to pay the fees and charges referred to in clauses 13a, 13b and 13c if:
 you end a service under clause 17b as a result of changes that significantly disadvantage you;

17 How we can change a service, etc

b If we increase any of our core charges, or if we make any changes to a service, the charges (other than a core charge) or the terms and conditions of the agreement in a way that significantly disadvantages you.

Regards the advanced line saver, do a search in this forum for threads on it, its not generally refundable, but according to some previous posts I've read, some folk have pursued it as a complaint and managed to get their money back that way.

Ah, thanks for that, I KNEW there was another clause in there that specifically spelt out about the equipment when you leave early because of the price increase - I had looked at those T&C orginally last week so I could start thinking about perhaps eBaying the 4K box!

I see the T&C were updated at the end of January so I thought they might have removed that above which caught my eye the first time.

boatman

darren72 wrote: »

Thank you very much for the detailed reply - It is appreciated.

My only issue now is if I can argue that I don't need the phone line (and the prepaid line rental) if I don't have the broadband services, and therefore my prepaid line rental should be refunded?

For the line rental saver, you'll have to put a complaint in to BT then keep pushing, and if need be go to the ombudsman, but they should pay it back.
Sent you a private message.

jb66

Hi boatman, can you send me a PM too

tom_w

What are the best offers people have been given from
Retentions?

I handed my notice in today on basis of price rise - I currently pay £25 for unlimited broadband and weekend calls - but I did that as a new customer and got something like £150 cashback (combo of prepaid MasterCard and quidco) so was equivalent of £12 ish a month.

Best offer to keep me was £28 a month for unlimited infinity 1 and line rental. The guy was extremely frustrating trying to discredited all the competitors so I thought it just best to leave it and wait for the 30 days to tick over and see what else comes up.

Currently I think talktalk £20 a month for 18 months plus £50 cashback is best I can find. But doesn't really tickle my tastebuds.

Vazzy64

BT have told me that even though they are putting up the cost of our broadband we are unable to cancel as we took out our agreement online, does anybody know if that's correct?
Surely it's not right to have differnot consumer rights online to over the phone?!
Thanks!

meherenow

Vazzy64 wrote: »

BT have told me that even though they are putting up the cost of our broadband we are unable to cancel as we took out our agreement online, does anybody know if that's correct?
Surely it's not right to have differnot consumer rights online to over the phone?!
Thanks!

Total rubbish - I'd phone back again (and tell them you are recording the conversation) - or post over on their forums - they don't like things getting made public so you will find that a helpful forum mod will take over your complaint.