Engaged without proposing.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

If she really thinks it's OK for you to marry her and then divorce her afterwards, I'm wondering whether she doesn't particularly want a marriage - but is frantic to have a 'Wedding'.

There's a huge difference between the two.

Amara

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

If she really thinks it's OK for you to marry her and then divorce her afterwards, I'm wondering whether she doesn't particularly want a marriage - but is frantic to have a 'Wedding'.

There's a huge difference between the two.

They've been together for five years, agreed to marry and now her father's dying. She may have said it out of frustration.

TBagpuss

jackieblack wrote: »

You don't need an 'official' formal proposal to become engaged.
She asked if you could get married soon, you agreed. When you agreed to get married, you were engaged from that moment, with or without a ring.

This. I understand that you hadn't discussed timeframes but you had discussed, and agreed, that you would get married.

A formal proposal can be romantic and create a nice memory, if that appeals to you, but it isn't essential. It's a bit like getting hung up over the flowers at a wedding - it might not be exactly how you imagined things but it it's not a major part of the wedding, still less of the marriage.

I think you need to look honestly at yourself.

Do you want to marry her?

If you do, then it isn't unreasonable to try to time things so that her dad can be there, particularly as that is clearly important to her.

If you don't, or are not sure, then you need to be honest with yourself, and with her, about that.

And ask yourself why you do (or don't) want to get married.

It doesn't sound as though either of you has handled the situation very well. It may be that you felt it was all sprung on you, equally, she is coping with the imminent loss of her dad, and probably a fair helping of guilt / pressure over the fact that she is 'living in sin'

If you love her, then bear in mind that any relationship has ups and downs, and one of the things you both need to do is to learn how you manage and deal with those, including learning how to discuss, father than fight, about differences of opinion.

Kynthia

You sound a little selfish or self absorbed to me as you seem to be acting as if the proposal is more important than the fact her father is dying. She is going through hell and you are making it worse and not better. I'm not saying someone who wasn't ready to marry should in order to support their partner but saying you are ready, agreeing to marry and then saying it won't be in time for her father to attend plus then not actually giving her the ring (which is her own mother's and was only given to you in order to give it to her) is cruel.

Yes she is acting a little irrational right now but she has a reason, what's yours? Going around accusing her of lying because you didn't get to do your 'official' proposal after agreeing to marry her.

After 5 years something must be holding you back from proposing and marrying her, otherwise you'd have proposed before now and then bringing forward the wedding wouldn't be that big of a deal to you when tge reason is so important. So what is it? She will already have been wondering why before all this happened? You aren't too young and you've been together ages so is it a fear of weddings, marriage/commitment, or aren't you sure she's the one? If it's tge first two then get over it quickly, talk to her, and agree some things that will work for you both. If it's the latter then don't marry her as even though she thinks it might be worth marrying someone who doesn't love her enough, she isn't thinking straight and will regret that.

If you were younger, hadn't been together so long or hadn't said you want to marry her anyway and were ready then I'd understand you feeling pressured into this. So why are you feeling railroaded and why are you putting barriers up to a quick wedding for such a good reason? Until you know you can't resolve this with her.

seven-day-weekend

The OP said he didn't want to get married 'within weeks'. If he doesn't want to, then he shouldn't. No-one should marry unless they are sure.

I think it was wrong of her to put the ring on, I think she has pressurised the OP in an attempt to please her father.

I think maybe he does want to marry 'one day'and it may well be to her, I don't think however that he is ready yet.

If he really, really loved her enough, and was ready, there would not be this problem - the fact that he is hesitating to me shows he is not ready.

duchy

He may think she will hang around for him, more likely she will remember that at a time her Dad was dying he behaved insensitively and immaturely and ultimately decides that he isn't the type of man she wants to marry as his priorities are so different. If you make it all about the proposal instead of the marriage at such a difficult time for her, she's unlikely to forget so pick your battles wisely when deciding what is important at this already for her emotional time.

FBaby

Problem is that he agreed to marry 'soon' and in the context of a marriage when a parent is dying it is reasonable to consider this means week not months hence why she feels that he was the one lying in the first place.

I expect they'll make things up. It's hard not to be emotionally weaken when someone dear is very ill. 5 years together before getting engaged especially when you're in your 30s is not strange at all as not marrying at all even if you love each other deeply.

Until OP comes back to explain why he didn't want to marry within weeks is hard to understand what the issue really is.

duchy

I suspect her idea of soon is coloured by her Dad's expectation not just of time left but also time his health will remain good enough to attend the wedding. Dad having six months to live doesn't mean there are six months of Heath good enough to be out of bed for.

peachyprice

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

If she really thinks it's OK for you to marry her and then divorce her afterwards, I'm wondering whether she doesn't particularly want a marriage - but is frantic to have a 'Wedding'.

There's a huge difference between the two.

I'm not sure it's the 'wedding' she wants, rather that she wants to be married to please her father, no matter to whom, which is perhaps what OP is feeling. She could marry Joe from the corner shop, as long as her dad sees her wed before he dies, which is no basis to start a lifetime together.

paddy's_mum

Person_one wrote: »

Hold on a minute, did you miss where he "did swear at her and told her to stop being a childish little !!!!!"?

That sounds like a heated row to me not domestic violence! She sounds distraught and desperate, not bullying!

Oops! not clear enough or else misunderstood on this occasion.

I'm not saying that there is actual or threat of domestic violence or bullying or any such thing going on between the OP and his Polish fiancee.

I'm saying that for many people if it had been a man insisting on marriage forthwith regardless of the feelings of the woman involved, many people would be yelling that he was bullying her, wanting to trap her, and showing conduct that is tantamount to do-as-I-say-or-else.

No, I did not miss the heated row but wonder how many saints there are among us who haven't lost it sometime, somewhere, somehow and started yelling. I've lost count of the number of times in a lifetime that I have been pushed into an explosion of wrath and been very verbal indeed!

I am actually sympathetic to the motivations and needs of both parties but also feel that bringing such pressure to bear may well provide a hollow victory in the end.

If the OP was entirely sure of his heart, he wouldn't have posted this in the first place but in any event, I wish all of them well for the future.