Engaged without proposing.

baby_lemonade

Bricked wrote: »

As crazy as that sounds it has happened. My Polish girlfriend found out in May that her dad has stage 4 terminal cancer. He's the only close relative she has left. He lives in Poland, we live here in the UK. Finding out he is terminal has really hurt her which i fully understand. She wants to make the most of the time he has left and every time we've visited him in the last couple of years he has asked me when i'm going to propose to his daughter.

We are both in our mid 30's. Been together 5 years and i've always known marriage is a big deal to her. She is catholic and during September when we were in Poland she asked me if we can get married soon because she wants her dad to do the handover. I did agree to it knowing how much it would mean to them both. She's a very beautiful slavic girl, well educated, kind, polite, funny, caring, sweet, stern, fair and i do love her.

We went out to a restaurant when we came back to the UK. It was there where i was going to propose to her. But we had a disagreement over when we would get married. She wanted to get married within weeks, i didn't. She stormed out and went home. Her dad knew i was going to propose to her because he gave me her mums ring. The next day she took the ring when i was at work and put it on. She then skyped with her dad telling him i've proposed.

I was not happy with her lying and forcing the marriage on me when i've not proposed. We've argued a lot up until now where it has reached boiling point. She is sleeping in a different room and is just telling me to marry her for her dads sake and to then divorce her afterwards. I did swear at her and told her to stop being a childish little !!!!!. She has stopped talking to me since that happened.

I'm wrestling my conscience with this one. I do love her and would be happy to spend the rest of my life with her. I did agree to marriage in a long discussion with her. The way she has done it is all wrong though. We're not engaged. The problem now being is the relationship to broken to fix this?

There is only one way i know that will get her talking to me and that is to use google translate and text her something in Polish. When we first met, i was trying to chat her up when we were texting and she sent back telling me i was just like all the other english guys. I replied with stane polskie dla ciebe which was meant to say i will become Polish for you but it didn't quite translate well enough. It did work and that night we had a conversation in Polish until 5am with me translating through google and that moment was the begininning of the relationship. I'm lost for words. I've never sworn at her before and i dont like living the way we are. The relationship has always been good. This rough patch is something i dont know how to deal with.

Make of this what you can. For the last 1hr 37 minutes i've been sat here thinking and writing. Some words of wisdom from someone who can help wouldn't go a miss. I was thinking and writing so long that when i clicked to post this i had been logged out. Love does affect the mind worse than anything.

It doesn't matter how beautiful she is if she's immature, a liar, volatile and prone to stamping her feet and sulking if she doesn't get what she wants.

RUN LIKE HELL, mate. The worst thing you can do is be guilt-tripped into marrying her on the quick.

SuzieSue

Sleazy wrote: »

That's NOT what he said - see quote below:

Yes, because he isn't sure about her for whatever reason. I just speculated what the reason might be, I didn't say that was the reason.

He hasn't told us why he wants to delay the wedding, but if he was sure he would marry her within weeks like she wanted. I suspect he only agreed to propose just to pacify her. And he didn't even get as far as proposing because they had an argument which doesn't auger well if they ever do get engaged properly, let alone get married.

dktreesea

Bricked wrote: »

I'll reply to more of your questions later on i'm on a quick break before afternoon tea service starts. With the way this has happened i feel like it looks like i'm only marrying her because her dad is dying. With my proposal i planned on telling her that i'm marrying her because i love her. The main arguing is over her lying to her dad its not something i'm happy about. I know she is trying to keep his spirits up but dont do it on a lie. When she mentioned that i can divorce her afterwards it makes me think she feels i dont love her.

Just my experience, but being married may be far more important to the woman than the guy. It's our western society. There's this idea that a successful woman is married with children. Even the word for a single woman - spinster - sounds sinister and haunted. Like a lonely wallflower that nobody wanted. In contrast, bachelor sounds like a guy who is free, free to roam the field. After all, he's not married, so how can he be really committed to his partner.


I've heard guys say being married is like they have put a yoke around their necks. They don't love the person whom they are married to any less, but they just don't feel as free. Women, on the other hand, are obsessed with commitment. If the guy doesn't want to marry her, then he isn't "committed" to her.


Both positions are a bit naff, imho. Freedom is a state of mind. having a ring on your finger doesn't have to interfere with it. As to the woman, if she really believes it's having a ring on her finger that increases the commitment of her partner to her, she's in dreamland. Guys who cheat on their partners can still cheat on them, even if they are married. Likewise for the women.


I can imagine your girlfriend's friends saying "If he's been with you 5 years and still hasn't proposed, he's never going to, he's not into you enough to marry you" especially if they are all happily married with children. For sure that will sow doubt in her mind about how much you care for her.


You're focusing on the lie she is telling her dying father, that she is engaged. But it seems to me you need to focus on yourself more, on your motives, on why you don't fancy marrying her. That's not an opinion; it's a fact. If you had really wanted to marry her, if you had really believed she was "the one", you would have done it years ago.


Yes, guys like to be with someone, they like the ease of living with someone else, but the ones who don't really commit, who don't propose, strike me as at the same time being on the lookout, just in case they are missing out on being with someone else who they would like/fit with better. After all, there's no lack of potential suitors. Women are interested in guys who are already taken, because another woman has given them a seal of approval.


If you want to marry her, then tomorrow is as good a day as any. If your answer is you want to, but not yet, then you have to accept that you don't want to marry her. The only point of power, of decision, that matters, is the one made now. And right now, you aren't wanting to marry her. Well, tell her and let her go, so she can find someone else, or commit to her and propose already. "Not yet, I don't want to today but might want to tomorrow" doesn't work. It's like emotional blackmail.

dktreesea

SuzieSue wrote: »

Yes, because he isn't sure about her for whatever reason. I just speculated what the reason might be, I didn't say that was the reason.

He hasn't told us why he wants to delay the wedding, but if he was sure he would marry her within weeks like she wanted. I suspect he only agreed to propose just to pacify her. And he didn't even get as far as proposing because they had an argument which doesn't auger well if they ever do get engaged properly, let alone get married.

Or he picked an argument because he wanted to get out of whatever commitment he felt he was being pushed into making.

dktreesea

SuzieSue wrote: »

Yes, but you can do all those things without getting married.

Marriage is fine when finances are equal or if people stay married until death do them part but when they are unequal or the person who has brought very little to the marriage suddenly decides they want a divorce then then are very unfair.

That's a value judgement and a half! Are you saying that for the wealthier partner, their material assets are more valuable to them than the love of their partner? That's not a person I'd want to marry. I'd rather marry a poor as a church mouse person who valued my love and was genuinely prepared to share all he had, and would acquire into the future with me, than someone who put a ring on my hand with one hand and held his abacus in the other!

System

Whats finances got to do with marriage? Both are a separate issue.

Important yes. Something you have to work on yes, but not something to base a marriage on.

Kayalana99

Ive not read the whole thread but all I see is a couple that agreed to get married, a terminally ill father who gave the man the ring and a date was known for the propsal.

What was the daugther to do? Tell her terminally ill father that the propsal never happened because they had a small argument?

The man wants to see his daugther get married before he dies, isn't this more important then any petty games you are playing with this poor woman?

You say you are happy to marry her, but not in the time frame she wanted. What difference does it make to you? Because it makes a difference to her and her dying father.

If her father dies before this wedding goes ahead, you'll have a very distraught 'girlfriend' and I doubt the relationship will get past this.

Decide what you want to do and stick by it, don't string her along and play games.

seven-day-weekend

In still think he is being guilt-tripped into doing something he is not ready to do. It's not up to us to say when he should be ready.

Kayalana99

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

In still think he is being guilt-tripped into doing something he is not ready to do. It's not up to us to say when he should be ready.

They've been together for 5 years, if he's not ready now when will he be? I'm not saying he 100% should marry her just because of her father - but he has said himself that he wants to marry her but just on his terms (which is playing games to me) and that changes things. Why does it matter if it's weeks or months? Years maybe but it's obvouisly really important to her.

If he doesn't want to marry her he can walk away, but I highly doubt the relationship will last if her father dies before he sees her walk down aisle.

End day, no one forced him to get this far - but then he changed his mind last min which not only led his gf to do what she did. Which in my mind I understand, it's not her putting a ring on and telling people she's engaged like a crazy person, she's done it so her (dying) father wouldn't be disappointed as he would have asked where the ring was since the OP had told her father when he was proposing...

dktreesea

You can have a couple, just living together, ignoring the flaws because after all, they're not married so are both sitting on a get out of jail card free, in case either of them do decide to move on. Then the M word appears and suddenly the less enthusiastic of the pair starts to really think about those flaws. It's one thing to maintain the status quo. And I could understand a guy's reluctance. If he is getting everything he wants out of the relationship, why add marriage to the mix? It's another thing to think marriage should be for life and what will it mean to still suffer the partner's flaws when you're 30, 40, 50 or 60. Yes, I know, there's always divorce. But maybe it's better to not take the leap and risk splitting up than to face a lifetime of regret.