Engaged without proposing.

duchy

jackyann wrote: »

I think it's shorthand for saying she comes from a deeply Catholic background, probably from an area that was overwhelmingly Catholic. It's cultural / religious issues around the family rather than nationality as such.
Someone brought up in a secular family would be similarly upset about her father's illness and imminent death, but probably wouldn't have the same cultural issues around marriage.

I think my Polish grandfather would have being deeply offended at your assumption he must be from a devout Catholic background . As would his friends at synagogue.

I don't think atheists are universally anti marriage either , there's a reason why many marriages are secular and not only performed in churches after all ! Plenty of atheists would want their father at their wedding in the same circumstances as the OPs fianc!e.

duchy

Quizzical_Squirrel wrote: »

Do devout Catholics shack up with the opposite sex before marriage these days? I don't know, I'm out of touch.

I will just add, with the father dying and lack of future security there, be mindful of visa situations potentially coloring the picture. The father will want to know his daughter will be ok in this matter too.

I say this kindly, as I married for a visa myself, so I'm not passing a judgement here. I did it. Just pointing out that this particular need can accelerate things perhaps before a couple is quite ready.

Well yes as Poland is part of the EEC then there may be definite advantages to them marrying if BREXIT means he needs to apply for a visa to work in certain European states so it would be an advantage to him to be married to a EU citizen.

baby_lemonade

duchy wrote: »

Well yes as Poland is part of the EEC then there may be definite advantages to them marrying if BREXIT means he needs to apply for a visa to work in certain European states so it would be an advantage to him to be married to a EU citizen.

The EEC hasn't existed since 2009......

duchy

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

In still think he is being guilt-tripped into doing something he is not ready to do. It's not up to us to say when he should be ready.

Yet they had already agreed to marry "soon". If he wasn't ready to marry then why agree to it. Seems like the issue isn't marriage but what soon means.

My ex husband wanted to get married "as soon as possible" I wanted to wait til after our baby was born as we were getting married anyway and I didn't want anyone to think I'd only married him because I was pregnant (didn't expect to fall the first month we tried for a baby lol). As it was important to him I agreed ....... we found a venue for six weeks later at which he looked shocked and said "wow that soon". Arghhh. :rotfl:

duchy

If people only married if their relationship was flaw free, no one would get married. Humans have flaws. I'd think anyone expecting perfection is probably prime divorce court material.

dktreesea wrote: »

You can have a couple, just living together, ignoring the flaws because after all, they're not married so are both sitting on a get out of jail card free, in case either of them do decide to move on. Then the M word appears and suddenly the less enthusiastic of the pair starts to really think about those flaws. It's one thing to maintain the status quo. And I could understand a guy's reluctance. If he is getting everything he wants out of the relationship, why add marriage to the mix? It's another thing to think marriage should be for life and what will it mean to still suffer the partner's flaws when you're 30, 40, 50 or 60. Yes, I know, there's always divorce. But maybe it's better to not take the leap and risk splitting up than to face a lifetime of regret.

Peter333

dktreesea wrote: »

You can have a couple, just living together, ignoring the flaws because after all, they're not married so are both sitting on a get out of jail card free, in case either of them do decide to move on. Then the M word appears and suddenly the less enthusiastic of the pair starts to really think about those flaws. It's one thing to maintain the status quo. And I could understand a guy's reluctance. If he is getting everything he wants out of the relationship, why add marriage to the mix? It's another thing to think marriage should be for life and what will it mean to still suffer the partner's flaws when you're 30, 40, 50 or 60. Yes, I know, there's always divorce. But maybe it's better to not take the leap and risk splitting up than to face a lifetime of regret.

Well, you're a right little ray of sunshine aren't you? :rotfl:

duchy wrote: »

Yet they had already agreed to marry "soon". If he wasn't ready to marry then why agree to it. Seems like the issue isn't marriage but what soon means.

My ex husband wanted to get married "as soon as possible" I wanted to wait til after our baby was born as we were getting married anyway and I didn't want anyone to think I'd only married him because I was pregnant (didn't expect to fall the first month we tried for a baby lol). As it was important to him I agreed ....... we found a venue for six weeks later at which he looked shocked and said "wow that soon". Arghhh. :rotfl:

Did you have a quirky, hipster wedding?

Seriously though, I wouldn't care what anyone else thought Duchy. The daughter of one of my friends was with her fella for 7 years, didn't get married, neither was bothered. Then she fell pregnant after a bout of anti-biotics prevented the pill from working, and although they hadn't planned it, they both seemed quite happy and ready for it (both 33!)

However, although they had never talked about marriage, she decided she didn't want the baby out of wedlock, and he said he understood and was quite happy to tie the knot. They got married a month later! As someone said (pollycat or Georgie maybe...???) it doesn't take 3 years to plan a wedding!

This couple are still married 7 years later. And they have 2 kids now!!!

Kayalana99 wrote: »

They've been together for 5 years, if he's not ready now when will he be? I'm not saying he 100% should marry her just because of her father - but he has said himself that he wants to marry her but just on his terms (which is playing games to me) and that changes things. Why does it matter if it's weeks or months? Years maybe but it's obviously really important to her.

If he doesn't want to marry her he can walk away, but I highly doubt the relationship will last if her father dies before he sees her walk down aisle.

.

I agree with this post.......... And as for the bit I have bolded, I agree very much with this........ In most cases (not all,) if someone 'isn't ready' for marriage and won't agree to set a date, (after five years together,) it's usually a sign they don't want to get married. If you are both on board with this, that's fine. If you're not on the same page, then this can cause underlying resentment..........

Person_one

duchy wrote: »

I think my Polish grandfather would have being deeply offended at your assumption he must be from a devout Catholic background . As would his friends at synagogue.

This woman is in her thirties, sadly, as we all know, Poland's Jewish population has been very small since the second world war, a quick google shows there are only about 20,000 individuals out of a population of nearly 40 million.

Poland is 90% Catholic. It seems a bit harsh to try and suggest somebody is being offensive by assuming that a young Polish woman is very likely to be.

Person_one

It doesn't like the OP is coming back though...

dktreesea

duchy wrote: »

If people only married if their relationship was flaw free, no one would get married. Humans have flaws. I'd think anyone expecting perfection is probably prime divorce court material.

There's plenty of people who are with someone who isn't their ideal partner and who stay together because they don't want to be alone. But if you are already 5 years into your relationship and realising that maybe this person isn't for you, maybe their flaws outweigh their advantages, then getting married because your other half is pressuring you into it is hardly going to improve matters from your point of view. Maybe from theirs - they've got what they wanted - but marriage should be about what both people want.

FBaby

In still think he is being guilt-tripped into doing something he is not ready to do. It's not up to us to say when he should be ready.

I don't think anyone is disputing this, but when you take the step to make a promise, to the person who thinks that you are as committed as they are with timescales (soon is soon, not later or in years time) that have an emotionally loaded meaning to the partner, then to turn around and play victim that they shouldn't be pressured is a very coward and cruel way to go about it.

Anyway not ready to marry should just say so, so that the other person know where they stand and have the knowledge to then decide what to do about it. Lying by making false promises is keeping the ball in your court for your convenience and is just selfish.