The EU: IN or OUT?

dizzie

True Chicab'b...

It doesn't guarantee anything, but then at least if they don't do their job, they can't pass the buck and say they aren't to blame.

At least if they don't do their job, we the electorate can join together and say at the next General Election "You are the weakest link - Goodbye"

If we stay, we will continue to elect politicians who make manifesto promises they can't keep and then when we try to blame them, they'll just continue to point in the direction of Brussels and say "Blame them!"

I like politicians to be accountable

aspiration_2

Chickabiddybex wrote: »

Either way, leaving the EU doesn't guarantee that and an awful lot of people seem to think it does. In fact, the odds are stacked in a way that leaving the EU would actually open up our borders further.

I don't know why the general public is asked to vote on something without first properly educating them on the decision

This is another point being touted by the remain campaign recently. 'Even if we are not in the EU, migrants will pour in'. Till about 15 years ago people with no skills from Poland and other Eastern countries were not allowed in. (Lot of them entered UK illegally, but that is a different matter). Most of our youngsters do not know this and they are more keen on traveling Europe during gap year..

Should the majority decide to leave then it is possible that the govt in power will implement it by making the major decision to distance it self from EU regulations. It is almost certain that border controls have to be implemented. Yes, it will take a few years.

Chickabiddybex

I disagree with you, I think staying in the EU is the best way to take control of our borders. We have already asked for concessions regarding benefits for EU migrants and been granted them (they have to work here for X amount of years before being able to get benefits) and I believe other countries will in turn push for something similar. I have no dubt that the UK will negotiate even stricter controls in immigration (if that's what the public want and it seems they do) and we will be in a much better position to do this by staying in the EU and out of the Schengen area. We don't have a leg to stand on outside of the EU - we have to compromise for access to the market. If we already have access... we can negotiate far more freely and it is the EU who must compromise in order to keep us

teddysmum

Chickabiddybex wrote: »

I disagree with you, I think staying in the EU is the best way to take control of our borders. We have already asked for concessions regarding benefits for EU migrants and been granted them (they have to work here for X amount of years before being able to get benefits) and I believe other countries will in turn push for something similar. I have no dubt that the UK will negotiate even stricter controls in immigration (if that's what the public want and it seems they do) and we will be in a much better position to do this by staying in the EU and out of the Schengen area. We don't have a leg to stand on outside of the EU - we have to compromise for access to the market. If we already have access... we can negotiate far more freely and it is the EU who must compromise in order to keep us

As one of the audience (widely reported) said to Cameron ,the other night, the promise is rather like that on the sheet of paper waved about by Chamberlain.


There is nothing concrete and the Unelected can and probably will backtrack.

dosh

Significant numbers vote for Brexit in ‘unofficial’ online polls:

Poll Station UK

Leave - 81%

Remain - 16%

Undecided - 3%

Total Votes: 141,842

http://www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/poll/

The Express

Leave – 87%

Remain – 10%

Undecided – 3%

Total Votes: 192,860

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/648583/Map-people-vote-EU-poll-bad-Cameron-project-fear-European-Union-Brussels

The Telegraph

Leave – 71%

Remain – 29%

Total Votes: 601,000

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/20/eu-referendum-poll-tracker-and-odds1/

Dajà vu?

EC Referendum 1975 - Labour's Peter Shore on Project Fear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j-Gb8Pk2Pk

StevieJ

Strange that, thursday (date of Express article) was the very day the odds on leave at the bookies started to weaken. Even before that senseless murder.

Chickabiddybex

There is nothing concrete and the Unelected can and probably will backtrack

Talking of "nothing concrete" I'm currently watching Boris Johnson on TV saying if we leave we get an Australian style immigration system. He has no way of making that happen! It's up to our parliament. He may want to implement that but so what, he has no power to do it. Parliament does. And they won't. They believe immigration is good and an open border is a small price to pay for access to the single market. So if we leave, the 450 MPs who are pro EU will sign us up to Schengen.

Can't believe the cheek of someone to just say "we will do this if we leave" when he has no more say on the matter than you or I.

BananaRepublic

Chickabiddybex wrote: »

I disagree with you, I think staying in the EU is the best way to take control of our borders. We have already asked for concessions regarding benefits for EU migrants and been granted them (they have to work here for X amount of years before being able to get benefits) and I believe other countries will in turn push for something similar. I have no dubt that the UK will negotiate even stricter controls in immigration (if that's what the public want and it seems they do) and we will be in a much better position to do this by staying in the EU and out of the Schengen area. We don't have a leg to stand on outside of the EU - we have to compromise for access to the market. If we already have access... we can negotiate far more freely and it is the EU who must compromise in order to keep us

In the EU we have zero control of our borders as far as EU citizens goes. The benefits concessions were pathetic, as benefits are not a draw for migrants from the EU, they come because they want to work, as there is low paid or no work at home. The whole point of the single market is zero rules on migration, namely the free movement of labour, and in effect their dependents. The EU will not and has not compromised in the least bit for us. Cameron's concessions were empty.

jimjames

Chickabiddybex wrote: »

Talking of "nothing concrete" I'm currently watching Boris Johnson on TV saying if we leave we get an Australian style immigration system. He has no way of making that happen! It's up to our parliament. He may want to implement that but so what, he has no power to do it. Parliament does. And they won't. They believe immigration is good and an open border is a small price to pay for access to the single market. So if we leave, the 450 MPs who are pro EU will sign us up to Schengen.

Can't believe the cheek of someone to just say "we will do this if we leave" when he has no more say on the matter than you or I.

Exactly. Leave are being very disingenuous by not being clear about what the outcome of an Out vote may be. Reality is that we don't know but it could be a Norway model where free movement is still allowed. Quite how it's expected that EU agree to all our demands with us agreeing to none of theirs is a bit pie in the sky.

jimjames

dosh wrote: »

Significant numbers vote for Brexit in ‘unofficial’ online polls:

How can any of those be considered in any way representative?