The EU: IN or OUT?

ColdIron

JohnRo wrote: »

'Brexit means Brexit'

Rubbish, John McDonnell told us 'Breakfast means breakfast'

CLAPTON

JohnRo wrote: »

He epitomises the conundrum and confusion that plagues the leave campaign.

Dyson is a leave camp poster boy.

He decided to vote leave because he was having difficulty recruiting non-EU engineers. Problem is it wasn't the EU rules making it difficult, it was our own.

Him campaigning for more immigration doesn't exactly sit comfortably with the 'man the barricades' and 'go home foreigners' campaigning the leave vote depended so heavily on does it?

presumably Dyson is an example of a thick, stupid easily manipulated brexiter

Thrugelmir

JohnRo wrote: »

The brexit vote was delivered by pandering to and energising the fears and prejudices of a certain demographic.

Those are the sort of words that caused so much angst. People are experiencing a change of culture etc for themselves first hand. The EU's fixation with free movement may be the very thing which brings it down ultimately. People do not regard themselves as European. They are proud of their own identities. Globalisation has gone far enough.

talexuser

veryintrigued wrote: »

Not all Brexiteers were / are racist.
Not all Remainers were / are self centred egoists with no sense of patriotic fervour.

The first is undoubtedly true but that impression has gained currency from some because of attitudes in voxpops and discussions with members of the public on tv, let alone some of the "wilder" posts here.

The second I don't really see as a widely held impression at all. Most remainers seem to be worried about economic consequences, and wishing a more prosperous and stronger country, and a better life for your children and grandchilderen must surely be patriotic. The main label from brexiteers to remainers has been whingers, which is not much of an argument.

Unfortunately I think the anti-establishment attitude which fuelled a part of brexit (and trump) is the result of the flat-lining of living standards since the crunch, and maybe a feeling your kids can never be as well of as you now due to life chances/employment changes and house prices etc.

bowlhead99

veryintrigued wrote: »

I hate to think what 'Chefs special sauce' you got after that dressing down!

:eek:

He does have a special chutney to go with the staff curry if you're there late...

Hardly a dressing down, no criticism on either side, we were just interested in what each other thought. He's a very friendly bloke, and I always feel sorry for him if in there midweek that he only really fills his place at weekends, while midweek trade can't cover more than staff costs, let alone overheads. He's had a quiet summer and is a bit "off the grid" by not joining the Just Eat/ HungryHouse bandwagon as the commissions are high and drivers want too much pay.

His wife thought better to remain for the economics, with tourism and alleged general spending power being good for a small restaurant; he thought better to leave for the non-EU trade and border sovereignty argument. Son liked the idea of freedom to travel and work in Europe, but didn't vote as he thought he wouldn't need to. Other son voted in but didn't really know why. Daughter is law student, voted out on grounds of local sovereignty in law making.

So, a whole family with votes at each generation cancelling each other out for net zero. In a hypothetical re-vote he thinks they would swing a bit more towards "in", but not fully.

JohnRo

CLAPTON wrote: »

presumably Dyson is an example of a thick, stupid easily manipulated brexiter

If you're attempting to ascribe that sentiment to me then forget it.

Read what I've written, I'm saying he's not even singing from the same hymn sheet as those people you describe. Which just reinforces how disparate, confused and inconsistent the leave vote is.

BananaRepublic

JohnRo wrote: »

Him campaigning for more immigration doesn't exactly sit comfortably with the 'man the barricades' and 'go home foreigners' campaigning the leave vote depended so heavily on does it?

I have yet to meet a leaver who expressed such views. Most I have spoken to wanted sovereignty. I find it sad that so many remainers show so little respect for other people's views that they portray those they disagree with as extreme right wing bigots.

BananaRepublic

JohnRo wrote: »

How can you do anything other than generalise when you're talking about millions...

"I'm not racist, but..."

Blimey, I'd say that if there was a Daily Mail and Sun reader here, it was you. How about showing some tolerance for those that disagree with you?

BananaRepublic

talexuser wrote: »

The first is undoubtedly true but that impression has gained currency from some because of attitudes in voxpops and discussions with members of the public on tv, let alone some of the "wilder" posts here.

There is a certain slightly left of centre holier than thou attitude at the BBC, as confirmed by various BBC employees. They are not politically biased as such, but no-one canbe impartial. The BBC likes to entertain, so they stuff Question Time with people likely to generate an 'interesting' debate. Similarly they interview those with the more extreme views. So yes some leavers were racist bigots, and they would get the air time. The moderate vast majority would not.

cloud_dog

BananaRepublic wrote: »

I have yet to meet a leaver who expressed such views. Most I have spoken to wanted sovereignty..

I'd be interested to know what that means in reality? As with everything the devil is in the detail, or an individuals perception of what that is.

I'm not looking to prolong the in or out debate; we are out, I just happen to disagree with it.