The EU: IN or OUT?

buglawton

EnglishMohican wrote: »

....
So we build Milton Keynes clones everywhere? The whole country a uniform Milton Keynes. That would solve overcrowding and produce balanced development? Are you serious?

During the 30s and 60s (and in even in Victorian times) the UK did in fact build massive clone developments everywhere. It provided a huge number of families (remember those?) what's called a 'life'.

BananaRepublic

Linton wrote: »

I shall assume you live in the SE. In the rest of the country there is plenty of room, I can think of two areas within 60 miles of where I live where you could lose a new Milton Keynes or two. Its another example of the consequences of failures in government policy being blamed on immigration.

The cutback in total population with tightly controled borders you desire leads to an ageing workforce with increased costs and fewer people to generate the wealth. Economic stagnation or worse, leading to poverty for the many. A better way of resolving serious differences in life quality arising from overcrowding or shortage of labour is to allow free movement of individuals across as wide an area of balanced development as possible.

I made no mention of a cutback in total population. Please do not continually ascribe to me views I do not hold. As for an aging population, using immigrants to pay pensions is a Ponzi scheme and is not the solution. I have lived in many parts of the UK and seen congestion everywhere. We are densely populated unless you do not care about the environment.

EnglishMohican

buglawton wrote: »

During the 30s and 60s (and in even in Victorian times) the UK did in fact build massive clone developments everywhere. It provided a huge number of families (remember those?) what's called a 'life'.

IN FACT, we did not build massive clone developments everywhere and it is nonsense to say we did. We know this is nonsense if only because Linton states that there are two big empty spaces within 60 miles of him.
We have built a number of towns (Welwyn Garden City, Skelmersdale for example) and expanded existing towns and cities hugely over the years. At present there is at least one new town being built not far from where I live and our towns and cities continue to grow.
I suppose you felt the need to exaggerate to the point of lying just so you could get your nasty little crack in about families.
The problem with Linton's view and presumably yours seeing that you attack me, is that it produces virtual slavery and all for the benefit of the elite - presumably you.
We need a high wage economy with everyone doing a reasonable number of hours of work in reasonable conditions, not people living in sheds or workhouse barracks as your ideas of importing cheap labour lead to.
The Eastern European countries - and others such as Somalia, need their brightest and best to stabilise and develop their own countries, to establish prosperous farms and factories and to generate enough wealth to look after the old, poor and sick in those countries. You may be all right in your old age with all that imported labour to look after you for peanuts but who looks after the parents left in the home countries. There is nobody left to do that. So much for your concern about families.

buglawton

Letchworth, Harlow, Hemel Hempstead, Bracknell. Massive new town conurbations built around the kernel of a tiny town or village.

Weirdly I think I agree with what you're saying somewhere but you've seized the wrong end of the tree trunk.

During the 60s in one of my vastly expanded towns housing estates, I had neighbours who were factory workers, a self employed grocer, a milkman, many commuters, all buying their semis on a mortgage and money left for normal life on the side. That was during a time where house building was keeping up with aspirations and population movement.
Will it ever happen again I wonder.

EnglishMohican

buglawton wrote: »

....... I had neighbours who were factory workers, a self employed grocer, a milkman, many commuters, all buying their semis on a mortgage and money left for normal life on the side. That was during a time where house building was keeping up with aspirations and population movement.
Will it ever happen again I wonder.

I worked in the factories with some of those factory workers and without wanting to turn us back to the 50s or 60s, they were mostly friendlier, kinder people who were happier in their work than my current wealth driven neighbours.
Ever increasing GDP should not be the key objective of government, it's a big change but more self responsibility combined with more care and generosity to others would give us all a better life. Concentrating "all good things" in London does not help the nation, only the elite.
Clearly we do need to build more houses to cope with our existing problems and to improve the overall stock but increasing the problem uncontrollably by allowing anybody to arrive here and want a house at zero notice is not going to help. Neither is letting those people live in barracks or slums.
Higher wages, no or fewer in-work benefits and the removal of the 16 hour cap and house prices might start to sound more attainable. The fact that electronics has not increased in price and that food prices are held back has fooled us into thinking we are well rewarded for our efforts. I do not believe that is the case.

BananaRepublic

buglawton wrote: »

Letchworth, Harlow, Hemel Hempstead, Bracknell. Massive new town conurbations built around the kernel of a tiny town or village.

Weirdly I think I agree with what you're saying somewhere but you've seized the wrong end of the tree trunk.

During the 60s in one of my vastly expanded towns housing estates, I had neighbours who were factory workers, a self employed grocer, a milkman, many commuters, all buying their semis on a mortgage and money left for normal life on the side. That was during a time where house building was keeping up with aspirations and population movement.
Will it ever happen again I wonder.

At that time we did not have the massive immigration we now see. The war saw a huge proportion of homes damaged or destroyed. Many prefabs went up after the war and the sixties saw a huge home building programme. Many of those homes have been pulled down as unfit.

Thrugelmir

buglawton wrote: »

Letchworth, Harlow, Hemel Hempstead, Bracknell. Massive new town conurbations built around the kernel of a tiny town or village.

When Abbey Meads was built in Swindon it was the largest single housing development in Europe. Around 10,000 houses being built.

cloud_dog

Good to see tangible results coming through for the country following Brexit...

UK public finances to be '£25bn worse off' by 2020




It's also good to see the PM cracking on with trying to kick off a trade deal with India, although the general opinion is....'what can you offer us?'

India would be interested in freer movement of people (students stc) but that's not what the Brexiters wanted.

veryintrigued

cloud_dog wrote: »

Good to see tangible results coming through for the country following Brexit...

UK public finances to be '£25bn worse off' by 2020




It's also good to see the PM cracking on with trying to kick off a trade deal with India, although the general opinion is....'what can you offer us?'

India would be interested in freer movement of people (students stc) but that's not what the Brexiters wanted.

Tangible results? Have you actually read the article? Its a prediction.

bowlhead99

veryintrigued wrote: »

Tangible results? Have you actually read the article? Its a prediction.

And we haven't had a brexit yet. So anyone saying there have seen tangible results post brexit, whether talking about 2016 (pre brexit) or 2020 (no results available) is jumping the gun. All we have to go off is projections and predictions