Debt ridden family from hell

FBaby

However - we then go on to what MIL's chances would be of being able to prove they have this much of her money in their keeping and what she handed it to them for.

Surely that's a massive block in any plan to get money back.

You estimate that she gave them £140K, but did she do that? That's £70K each year. Did she pay towards the mortgage/bills monthly, was it a lot of 'please mum, can you give us £100 towards DD's piano lessons' or was it 'give us the £140K, will keep it until we do build the extension'.

The problem is that it might very well be your MIL who didn't budget her money properly. You say she is strong willed, so she should have taken control of the money she was handing them. If indeed the decision was that it would go towards an extension, why did she wait so long to challenge them on that?

I understand how frustrated and angry you are. They are clearly taken advantage of her and they are clearly horrible people, but you have to take into account that there is probably a lot that you don't know and assumptions made on your part.

I think your MIL needs to be the one proposing ways forward and you and wife supporting her. She is the one who needs to decide whether she wants to see a solicitor and consider taking steps to take them to court.

My gut feeling is that she won't be able to prove anything and will only risk losing more, so the question is more whether she wants to press charges against them for financial abuse as a vulnerable person, but that clearly is opening another can of worms which she might not be prepared to do.

Yorkshire_Midge

@Fbaby - she might be strong willed, but I can say with a fair degree of certainly she would not go after them legally.


She has control of the money - she did not give it all to them in one lump, but we think it has simply been eroded.


How little is left surprised even us and questions need (and will) be asked where the hell it has all gone.

pmlindyloo

I have to agree with the general advice given here.

There is very little evidence of financial 'abuse' as your MIL is of sound mind and from what you say has given them the money of her own free will.

This said, it is possible that there is some 'trail' of the money given for the extension to be built - bank statements for example. Also, there may be evidence tied with this of conversations with builders/architects about the extension/conversations about the extension with a third person present.

I personally, like others, believe that there is no chance of your MIL getting the other money back but there may be a small chance of getting the extension money back.

Whether your MIL wants to do this with the probability of being entirely cut off from her grandchildren is completely up to her. it is absolutely pointless in your getting involved if your MIL has no wish to do anything.

You cannot 'force' these people to do anything as you cannot 'force' your MIL to move out of the property and/or take any legal action.

AdrianC

Yorkshire_Midge wrote: »

@AdrianC - correct. She places the blame and the responsibility for fixing it firmly where it belongs, and that is with the two idiots that caused it.

And yet she is actively refusing to take the first step towards ending that situation.

She knows both my wife and I have always been careful with money and lived within our means, and doesn't see why we should pick up the mess.

Step one towards clearing up a mess is to stop doing whatever created it and is making it worse.

It doesn't alter the fact we're very uncomfortable at her being anywhere near them.

Frankly, this isn't about you. If, as you say, she is in full possession of her faculties and competent to make decisions, then this is JUST about her and them. And, right now, she is CHOOSING to continue to live with them.

Yorkshire_Midge wrote: »

@Fbaby - she might be strong willed, but I can say with a fair degree of certainly she would not go after them legally.

And, if she did, she'd get nowhere.

She has control of the money - she did not give it all to them in one lump, but we think it has simply been eroded.

How little is left surprised even us and questions need (and will) be asked where the hell it has all gone.

The answer is simple. She voluntarily gave it to them, to do with as they wished. It was a series of gifts, given freely.

You may not like that, but the alternatives are that they have somehow stolen it without her being aware (you say otherwise, and you certainly couldn't prove it anyway) or that she does not have full control over her own decisions.

moneyistooshorttomention

Yorkshire_Midge wrote: »

How little is left surprised even us and questions need (and will) be asked where the hell it has all gone.

Fair enough to ask those questions.

Some people are capable of getting through money at an astonishing rate though. Years back I watched someone sell their house (with the stated intention of buying another one instead) and I think she must have only taken a couple of years to just blow that house equity (combination of buying a lot of expensive trash etc and I suspect "paying" for the company of much younger men....:cool:).

dancingfairy

She needs to ring fence whatever money she has left.

It might be worth her getting an independent power of attorney registered to avoid any accusations against you/ further mudslinging.

I would suggest not 'investing' in the granny annexe ( either her or you) as there is a real possibility they could end up bankrupt.

I would also be wary of her moving out and living with you as this may muddy the waters in terms of council assistance etc. She should seek proper advice before she does anything.

Presumay there is a possibility ( however small) that she could go to court to get the money she's paid for the extension back, though what evidence she'd have and how she could separate what was gifts, what was treats for the grandchildren etc I don't know.

It sounds like a horrible situation. Please look after yourselves and make sure everything is above board/ you protect yourselves from any allegations etc. Desperate people will make accusations and you don't want to end up going down with them.
Df

AdrianC

dancingfairy wrote: »

It might be worth her getting an independent power of attorney registered to avoid any accusations against you/ further mudslinging.

PoA doesn't take effect while she is still competent to make her own decisions. Then, even after it does take effect, any decisions that attorneys take have to be in accordance with what they believe her wishes would be - and there's a long history to suggest that would include continuing to gift money to the people she's chosen to continue living with...

Yorkshire_Midge

@pmlindyloo - agreed, all I can do is what I am doing right now which is writing up the pros and cons of every conceivable option, and also seeking legal advice in the morning from my solicitor.


She then has the best information we can give, to enable her to make her decision.


@Everyone - I'll not update this thread again today - but can I just thank you all for your support esp. during the Easter holidays. I have a clarity of thought and some good solid ideas and opinions to consider, which I think will allow this mess to move forward. And I've got any ranting out my system!


Bye for now.....

ripplyuk

I honestly think it's a bad idea to put any of your own money towards this situation. It will only end up lost and like you say, you have your own wife and retirement to consider first.

It sounds like your MiL will continue to let this awful couple squander her money, but that will run out eventually. At some stage she will have to consider asking the council or social services to find her somewhere to live.

I would keep mentioning options to her like renting somewhere of her own, but until she wants to change things, there's nothing you can do to force her.

Alter_ego

AdrianC wrote: »

PoA doesn't take effect while she is still competent to make her own decisions.

I believe it can if she agrees. My wife holds and uses POA for an aunt who is totally competent to make decisions.