Debt ridden family from hell

Yorkshire_Midge

The situation is my sister-in-law and husband got themselves into serious debt some years back. Entirely their own fault - they simply can't stop themselves spending lavishly on their kids when they simply don't have the income to support it. Music lessons, horse riding lessons, lots of presents etc etc.


Having had several five figure bail outs from my mother-in-law, they decided the solution was she had to sell her lovely retirement flat and move in with them on the promise of an extention being built for her. That was nearly two years ago and no sign of the extension. They just shoved her in a poky little room off their lounge which they used to use as an office, which you can barely get a single bed in.


The other night, they decided to throw her out - so my wife and I went around to try and sort things out. The husband was the most aggresive, vile and sick b*stard imaginable - telling my mother-in-law she was disgusting, to f-off, p-off etc etc. This was all played out in front of his youngest child. It was probably the most diabolical and disgraceful behaviour I have ever witnessed of an individual in my life.


Now you might wonder what my mother-in-law's crime was, and it was basically to start applying the pressure on her unacceptable accomodation, and also to stand up to the husbands long standing bullying and controlling behavior - which included banning us from visiting my mother-in-law in HIS house.


My sister-in-law was all in tears trying to get us to take my mother-in-law to our place out of her husbands way, which sounds reasonable until you realise she is a controlling, manipulative little bully herself, and by all accounts has been nearly as bad as him when out of our sight - and to her OWN mother! Mother-in-law is back in their house - but the atmosphere is terrible. Sister-in-law/husband haven't given her one word of apology, her grandchildren have obviously been told to ignore her.


We have since established that the amount of money my mother-in-law has left will barely cover the cost of the extension - so they have cleared her out of something approaching £140,000 in two years.


You might also be wondering what WE were doing to influence my mother-in-law not to do this in the first place given their history with debt - and the answer is the sister-in-law and husband took a minor family disagreement between us and them, which was was originally sorted out in half an hour nearly four years ago, and turned it into a long running feud - setting my mother-in-law against us to the point she was barely talking to us let alone confiding in us. This including completely fabricating stories to try and discredit me with my mother-in-law and paint me as the nasty piece of work. We now know WHY of course - it was to hide the five figure bail outs they were taking off her back then, and to make it easier to get her out of her flat for the the bigger prize, with us conveniently out the way.


In terms of her rights as a tenant, we don't think she has a leg to stand on. No tenancy agreement, and she shares the bathroom and other house facilities so has no more rights than a lodger as far as we can tell. The money hasn't been syphoned/stolen - she knew what she was doing, and did it for the sake of the grandchildren.


As I write this, mother-in-law is sitting downstairs after a tearful Easter Sunday lunch with us two, whilst the family from hell head off on a nice little holiday. These filthy parasites make me sick to my stomach.

We think our options are as follows:


1. We force them to put their house up for sale, and use the equity in it to at least partially pay for something for her and we try and top it up from our savings. They would then have to rent.


2. We force them to evict her and explain themselves to the council and ask for her to re-homed. She'll probably end up somewhere which is not very nice, and although she now realises how incredibly foolish she has been, its such a dramatic drop from the lovely retirement flat she had, I doubt she will ever adjust. Doesn't sit comfortably with us either.


3. We take her in, which we are reluctant to do on principle, as we have never taken one single penny off my mother-in-law, and my wife isn't in the best of health either so my priority has to be to care for her. My mother-in-law is also partially blind so her needs will increase.


4. We re-house her, which would pretty much clear us out of our own savings and put our own retirement plans at risk. Why should we when we have managed our money carefully all our lives, and they have been reckless and irresponsible with money all of theirs?


5. The extension gets built (with us having to top up as necessary) and hope that if it maintains enough separation (i.e. own door etc.) it might reduce the husbands foul behaviour to manageable levels. i.e. it becomes like living with the neighbour from hell, rather than under the same roof as one. Problem here is we can see the chances of them getting into debt again in future must be quite high - so she remains at risk from them being repossessed.


Option number 1 is undoubtedly the moral and correct thing for them to do, and there is a certain sense of justice being done that they should loose THEIR house as punishment for what they have done. Unfortunately, they will punish my mother-in-law mercilessly if this happens. It will without any shadow of a doubt be the last time she ever sees her grandchildren (they have track record in using them as a weapon).

So to my questions finally!

1. Even though she has no rights as a tenant, my feeling is a verbal contract was formed over them providing a proper extension for her, so they are in breach of it. Anyone with any experience of verbal contracts like to comment on this?

2. If she goes ahead with the extension (option 5) is it feasible to add her to their deeds as a fractional owner (her share would be 15% approx), with the caveat that she is paid out in FULL if the house is sold or repossessed, and they get whatever is left. There is no negative equity risk.

Thanks!

kinger101

Your mother needs to do something she should have done years ago. Seek proper legal advice.

Yorkshire_Midge

Thanks - we've just had that conversation with her.

Thrugelmir

Yorkshire_Midge wrote: »

1. Even though she has no rights as a tenant, my feeling is a verbal contract was formed over them providing a proper extension for her, so they are in breach of it. Anyone with any experience of verbal contracts like to comment on this?

People have the right to change their minds. Without a contract there's nothing to enforce.

Yorkshire_Midge

Thanks. The concept of a verbal contract does exist in law (not easy to prove I'll grant you) - so on what basis are you saying there can't be one in this case?

eddddy

A verbal contract is as valid as any other contract.

The problem is that it's likely to be disputed. e.g. MiL says a, b and c were agreed, but the husband says 'no they weren't'.

If it got as far as court, it would be decided on 'balance of probablities'. i.e. the court would look at witness statements, plus any documents (e.g. letters, bank statements etc) and decide who they believe.


Assuming the house is mortgaged, making MiL part owner of the house might be difficult and risky.

e.g. most lenders would want joint owners to be joint borrowers. So if SiL and husband didn't pay the mortgage, the bank might sue MiL for the money.

bobbymotors

Number 4.

Except YOU own it, not MIL, she lives in it and when she dies you sell it. Or rent it out at FMV

Yorkshire_Midge

@bobby - option 4 isn't completely off the table, but the problem is MiL's family seem to be long lived so we need to plan for at least 10 more years. Also, there are often restrictions on sub-letting over-55 flats which she really does need (not sheltered, but a housekeeper and alert system).

Alter_ego

1 &2 are out of the question - How can you "force" them? 5 is dodgy too.

Yorkshire_Midge

@eddddy - if she puts money into the extension, it will leave her with virtually nothing in the way of assets anyway. So if they defaulted, the house would simply have to be sold. Hence my point whether it was possible to dictate how the remaining equity is split once the bank has covered off their legal and disposal fees.

Rosemary7391

I feel like 5 would be throwing good money after bad, especially as it doesn't sound like she wants to live there - I wouldn't! I'd take her in immediately as a temporary measure, because it sounds like her only fault is being too kind/trusting. I can live with someone like that! That'll give her time to recover from what must've been a nasty shock, and give you all a chance to work out the best way forward.