Would you end your marriage (or relationship,) if your partner didn't want children?

Jagraf

Most secure people shouldn't really be bothered about other people's decisions, so I guess those who do ask "why do you have kids" or "why don't you have kids" can't see beyond their own lifestyle choices but can be quite insecure. I have a cousin like this. Whatever I do, she has to find a reason why she didn't do it that way, which in turn means she's putting me down. Hey Ho.

People do this with number of kids / house / job / money / education (education is a biggie too).

catkins

Petra_70 wrote: »

So this assumption that when you have kids, your life becomes horrible, dull, not relaxing, and is basically finished, is so wrong that it's laughable.

I suspect that the childless on here have heard a couple of people say once or twice 'I will ring little Johnny's neck if he doesn't quit turning up the heating to 25 every night!' and 'Little Julie keeps hogging the remote; little swine.' And the childless -(who tend to be extremely defensive,) conveniently hear this as 'I wish I had never had kids.' I also agree that there is a chance they may be saying things to make you feel better because they feel sorry for you. That is not outside the realms of possibility.

Don't have children by all means, but stop trying to convince yourself that people with them have a miserable existence, no sex life, no fun, no money, rubbish holidays, and a bad relationship with their partner. Frankly, it's making people look bitter and spiteful, making all these kind of comments, that are frankly, WAY off the mark. My life, and my husband's life, was great before we had kids, but life is just as good WITH them; if not better. If I could go back 20 years, I would not change a THING.

I agree that some childless people can be very defensive and judgemental.

I think, if anything, your post is judgemental. I am not talking about parents who have a moan about their children. I am saying that over many years quite a few people have said to me that although they love their children, if they could go back in time they would not have any. I have not imagined that or made it up.


It's still quite a taboo subject but people are becoming more honest and open. As I said, there are forums for people who regret having children as well as a facebook page.


It is also an insult to say that someone would say that sort of thing to make you feel better because they feel sorry for you. What on earth is that meant to mean? So why exactly are people with children meant to feel sorry for anyone without? I have a dog should I feel sorry for anyone without one?


Just because you would not change anything does not mean that everyone feels the same does it?


Some people regret not having children and some people regret having them.


The first person who said something to me was a friend's grandmother just before I got married. She said to me "If you want to keep your marriage happy do not have children". I was in my early 20's at the time and I shocked and surprised that she would say such a thing.


I have never said every parents regrets having children. Of course that would be ridiculous but quite a few do. Nor have I ever said that once you have a child your life is ruined.

duchy wrote: »

It's the same with the Children question. You are assuming people are thinking something they are unlikely to be thinking or care about.

"Do you have children ? Is a normal social conversation query. In most situations the questioner really doesn't care any more than you care if they have children or not.

Possible responses - "No we don't......<smile> So how do you know our hosts ? " normal social conversation continues in the quest for common ground to converse about.

"No" said with a glare .....the other person is instantly thinking "Have I offended them...... have they lost a child ? hate children, are infertile OMG what do I say" Conversation either comes to a halt or you've made the questioner so uncomfortable they start blathering to fill the gap - and yes that blathering may well be about children

"No We don't want them " Questioner is either thinking " TMI " or again is made to feel uncomfortable.

If childfree people were to remember most people are only asking for politeness sake and you didn't turn it into a perceived attack on lifestyle choice you'd probably find these conversations easier . Most people really don't care enough to make a thing of it and option one makes social interaction farr nicer for everyone.

I can assure you that over the years some of the people that have asked if I have children have not asked for politeness sake. Whenever I have been asked I have always just said "no" in a perfectly friendly way.


Often no further mention was made but enough people made extremely rude and /or hurtful comments. Would you like to be told you are not normal or asked why you got married if you didn't want children. As I said above, I was told by a female doctor that I was not a proper woman if I didn't have or want children.


Also keep being told you will change your mind or that you will regret it or you will be lonely etc is extremely annoying and, if it were to someone who wanted children but could not have them, extremely upsetting.

duchy wrote: »

My comments were aimed at the posters who claim "every person with kids I meet insist on interrogating me on why I don't have/want kids" I do believe that if that happens to you then there are things you are doing that provokes this.

I don't recall any poster claiming that every person with kids insist on interrogating them.


I don't see why its acceptable for even 1 person to interrogate someone as to why they don't have children but when it's numerous people over a period of time it gets very annoying. I have never ever asked someone why they have 1 child, 4 children or whatever partly because it's rude and partly because I don't honestly care.

Jagraf

I love my daughter dearly but I don't enjoy parenthood. Some parents get a buzz from being a parent, I don't. I felt absolute dread at being the one ultimately responsible for another human being. I would die for her, but I don't enjoy feeling that way.

I have many of my original "parents class" friends who now the kids are grown up they openly admit it too. It depends what floats your boat.

Ultimately having kids doesn't mean you enjoy being a parent. Kids are individuals and the parenting bit is a job you either love or don't. It doesn't mean you love your kids less or more either way.

SandC

Sounds like your wife worked with some horrid people back then - but then I encountered some really rude characters at work in the 80s, thankfully times have changed and most folk have learnt to show respect for others in the workplace these days. Having said that, no excuse for your friends who didn't have children at the time - I imagine they changed their tune soon enough if they had children at a later date?

One thing I do get occasionally is people telling me, yes telling me, that I shouldn't like Christmas because I don't have kids. I even got this from a close friend and was stunned when she said it! I just reminded her how much she used to enjoy the festive season before she had children and said that's how I still felt.....

euronorris

I'm going to go middle of the road here and say that there are lovely people, and nasty people, on both sides of the fence. At least that has been my experience.


I had an odd response to my pregnancy from a colleague from a different office yesterday, of 'Oh God, not another one!'. No, 'Good morning.' or 'Congratulations' or anything like that. Weird. Especially as I do not work on this team, or do any work for him. My pregnancy, and maternity leave, will have no impact on him.


By contrast, my boss is child free by choice, but has been nothing but lovely and supportive. She always is. I'm very lucky in that respect.


On the other side of the fence, I tend not to ask questions about whether or not people have kids. And if they offer up the info that they are child free by choice, my usual response is 'That's cool. You doing anything nice this weekend.'.


My Mother, on the other hand, can not understand why anyone would choose not to have kids and can be relentless if the discussion comes up. It's not very pleasant to be around.

duchy

One thing that has struck me is there are at least two cited examples of negative comments.....from the eighties.

A different time, arguably very different social attitudes.

To still be holding onto hurt from a thirty five year old comment and using it to illustrate that people don't understand the child free choice seems extraordinary to me. Could it be creating a self fulfilling prophecy ?

Did anyone back then express surprise or even disapproval to me that in my mid twenties I was more interested in a career and going travelling (I spent 6 months working abroad around that time) than settling down ? Yes probably - a lot of attitudes were more traditional then.

Do I still remember those comments and their sting ? No because I was secure in my choices and was doing what was right for me and I didn't expect my choices to be the same as everyone elses because we aren't all the same.

Today- the child free option isn't unusual - not always through choice- too many women who delayed their children to have a career first found fertility can be a major issue later on , others decided they didn't want the change in status or finances that having children can bring and decided they like their life just the way it is, others with diminishing social pressure to go two by two with the obligatory 2.3 kids attached no longer feel pressured to conform , and there were always women who simply never wanted children and didn't care what society thought .

As someone else posted there will always be people who are so narrowminded they can't understand why anyone wouldn't make the same life choices as them but if you aren't a narrow minded person yourself- why would you care what they think ?

I don't drink - or rather don't care to drink. Is it tiresome when out socially and have people trying to push drink on me, or tell me I'm not fitting in socially because I have a sparkling water rather than a glass of wine in my hand. Yes it is - but I don't get myself in a knot about it - I just smile and take no notice . If other people are bothered about my choices that is their problem -it only becomes mine if I care to make it my problem - and quite simply I don't.......and I really don't care if they understand me or not. My choice makes no impact on them after all.

heartbreak_star

I once got told I would never know what real love is because I will never hold my own baby. (Imagine that said with drama and flounce.)

Apparently there's only one kind of love in the world.

Silly woman.

Thankfully, the other people in the room were as hopelessly bemused by this as I was and we just continued chatting about how our lives were going.

HBS x

catkins

Peter333 wrote: »

I agree with the poster who said when someone asks a child-free person if they have kids, and they say no, the attitude of the child-free person is the thing that causes the problem, because they are so humongously defensive. And in my opinion, very rude to parents; in particular mothers.

Also in my opinion, it's the child-free who distance themselves from parents, not the other way around.

For the record, me and my wife have 3 children, and would never change a thing, and I have also never heard anyone saying they regret having their children.

I have never been defensive when asked if I have children. I have always just replied in a friendly way. It is when the nasty remarks follow that I get defensive, which I am sure you would agree, is perfectly acceptable.


I have also never been rude to a mother. I have plenty of friends with children whose ages range from 6 to 40's. My sister has children who I think the world of.


I am sure you have never had anyone say to you that they regret having children but that doesn't mean such people don't exist does it? They are fairly unlikely to say it to a parent because of the reaction it would probably cause.


I have never had a childfree person tell me they regret not having children but I know they must exist.

SandC wrote: »

One thing I do get occasionally is people telling me, yes telling me, that I shouldn't like Christmas because I don't have kids. I even got this from a close friend and was stunned when she said it! I just reminded her how much she used to enjoy the festive season before she had children and said that's how I still felt.....

Oh I had completely forgotten the Christmas nasty remarks. I absolutely love Christmas and get quite excited about it, even tracking santa's progress online. I have had a couple of remarks about Christmas is only for children or I can't possibly know how Christmas really is as I don't have children.

duchy wrote: »

One thing that has struck me is there are at least two cited examples of negative comments.....from the eighties.

A different time, arguably very different social attitudes.

To still be holding onto hurt from a thirty five year old comment and using it to illustrate that people don't understand the child free choice seems extraordinary to me. Could it be creating a self fulfilling prophecy ?

Do I still remember those comments and their sting ? No because I was secure in my choices and was doing what was right for me and I didn't expect my choices to be the same as everyone elses because we aren't all the same.

As someone else posted there will always be people who are so narrowminded they can't understand why anyone wouldn't make the same life choices as them but if you aren't a narrow minded person yourself- why would you care what they think ?

I don't drink - or rather don't care to drink. Is it tiresome when out socially and have people trying to push drink on me, or tell me I'm not fitting in socially because I have a sparkling water rather than a glass of wine in my hand. Yes it is - but I don't get myself in a knot about it - I just smile and take no notice . If other people are bothered about my choices that is their problem -it only becomes mine if I care to make it my problem - and quite simply I don't.......and I really don't care if they understand me or not. My choice makes no impact on them after all.

I didn't only have comments made to me in the 80's, far from it.


The first comment, as I said before, was made just before I got married in 1980. I had comments from others through the 90's and I think one of the last comments made to me was in around 2006.


You may think it odd that I remember comments but I do. I was and am totally secure in my decision BUT not secure in myself. I have always been a very insecure person, quite shy and also, most of my life, suffering from depression and anxiety. I was also badly bullied at school.


I didn't expect to grow up and still feel like I was being bullied, especially at work.


I realise there are nasty people in the world and some of them obviously get a kick out of being nasty but it just gets really wearying being made to feel inferior/strange/odd or whatever. When the doctor told me I was not a proper woman I was upset, I can't pretend I wasn't. I was only about 27 at the time and it offended me and upset me deeply. Why would I forget being told that?


I don't really drink either. Maybe the odd glass of wine a couple of times a year. When I was younger I never drank alcohol at all. So yes, I've also had all those comments over the years too.

duchy

heartbreak_star wrote: »

I once got told I would never know what real love is because I will never hold my own baby. (Imagine that said with drama and flounce.)

Apparently there's only one kind of love in the world.

Silly woman.

Thankfully, the other people in the room were as hopelessly bemused by this as I was and we just continued chatting about how our lives were going.

HBS x

I think you did well not to laugh out loud at them

heartbreak_star

duchy wrote: »

I think you did well not to laugh out loud at them

I was too gobsmacked to laugh, haha! I got angry and upset a bit later though.

I also feel sorry for her poor husband...

HBS x