Are you dating an emotional manipulator?

pinkandblueshoe

As far as I'm concerned people always have choices. Many human beings go through testing times, they don't all turn out to be manipulative. Im afraid to say some people get enjoyment from hurting others. I can't make excuses for people who behave like this. Being on the receiving end and having your self worth damaged by someone who behaves like this is unnecessary.

I've seen people trot out the line, people can only affect you if you let them etc etc. When you are on the receiving end it's not so easy.

I think the most interesting part of the thread was glimpses of what a wonderful person she can be. It's ok sometimes? So when it's not ok you either get the blame or blame yourself?

It's an awful way to live. I couldn't live like that for 20 years.

lostinrates

pinkandblueshoe wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned people always have choices. I agree, entirely. Many human beings go through testing times, they don't all turn out to be manipulative.Absolutely. But do we all emerge wholly unscarred, are any of us un flawed? Im afraid to say some people get enjoyment from hurting others.This is true to, but I don't think all manipulative people fall under this banner of sadist. I can't make excuses for people who behave like this. Being on the receiving end and having your self worth damaged by someone who behaves like this is unnecessary.I find this interesting, because you remind us in your opening line we all have choices, which agree with, yet, while I also agree with you here, its easy to forget as a victim, that behaviour is often created by being a Victim (or poor parenting, discipline, or other things, not all manipulative and nasty peoe are vitims, but if I think a lot have been. And that is not to 'excuse' it , its to understand it, and also to remember each on of us can not necessarily be a 'goody' to their 'baddy' m because I think often the emotional transgressions in interaction are far more complicated yet seen as simpler from one side

I've seen people trot out the line, people can only affect you if you let them etc etc. When you are on the receiving end it's not so easy.

I think the most interesting part of the thread was glimpses of what a wonderful person she can be. It's ok sometimes? So when it's not ok you either get the blame or blame yourself?

It's an awful way to live. I couldn't live like that for 20 years.

As you say, people can also be wonderful. We are, most of us a mix of good and bad. How we are for twenty years is not really something we 'put on' to be for enjoyment in most people I think, rather something we fall into being, unless we are aware and guard against, maybe, in the case of negative behaviours in most people?

There are of course some people who delight in negative behaviour, but I hope they are rather fewer in society.

pinkandblueshoe

I absolutely get that people who behave like that are often damaged themselves. But being on the receiving end of such behaviour can cause immense damage to self worth, self esteem.

Im afraid to say I can't be around people like that, I can't do toxic relationships. And I speak from experience of being in a relationship with someone who ticked every box on that list.

That's not how healthy relationships function.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

I think some of them felt a lack of power in their formative years, but learned that they could get it back through such things as 'running to Daddy' or by making teachers feel sorry for them, that kind of thing, possibly being repeatedly told they're special or better than everybody else and deserve whatever reward (food, activities, presents, cuddles) because they're that special, just reinforces the always needing more, as they come to expect that level of fuss as normal treatment. I also think that some were given an almost idyllic early childhood, where they were protected from everything, never allowed to be sad or punished or said 'no' to, and it was when they started being told no that they learned how to get around it by tears and tantrums and telling sob stories to others.

They're never happy. Ever. It doesn't matter how many gifts they get, how much help, support or love, they always seem to 'need' more and, once one person is worn out from the constant demands and escalating emotions (or gets wise to it), they'll latch onto someone else.

Most people who hear of somebody being given a car, free holidays or anything else, would think 'how wonderful for you'. The manipulator will see that other people have better cars and feel hurt that they can't be seen as being worth as much as the person who has the better car. The person taken on holiday will be in tears and refuse to enjoy their holiday if the hotel booking is changed so that they aren't in the room they imagined. The person with a loyal and supportive partner will be unhappy if the loyal and supportive partner prioritises something other than them, whether that be a child, paying the mortgage instead of buying another present, or by needing to have a life of their own and do things that aren't all about them.


I feel envy and a tinge of jealousy if I hear of somebody like that; of course I'd love to be able to go on holiday for free and have lovely things - I'd prefer to be able to afford them myself, but free is great; they are very fortunate to have people in their life who love and care for them and have the ability to do that for them.

But I don't envy the need for control, the need for everything to be perfect, the constant desire to be the centre of attention. It must be so stressful to be completely unable to see exactly how fortunate you are, to only be able to think about how things appear to others, to be constantly struggling to force, coerce and bend others to your will.


I've not argued with my OH, but we've disagreed about things. One of those things is something that's very important to me, that I'm prepared to take any consequences of doing. He knows what those consequences will be for me and, despite my saying 'you know it's worth it to me. I'd do it anyway; I don't care about that'. His answer was 'But I do.'.

I might not like his answer/not getting my own way, but he's saying it because he thinks it's the right thing to do, not to devalue me or my feelings. I find it more 'rewarding' emotionally that he's prepared to risk upsetting me for my benefit than panicking and saying yes because he's be scared of my reaction if he disagreed.

But an emotional abuser/manipulator wouldn't see it like that.

PeacefulWaters

Still trying to get my head around it.

17 year old doing "A" levels next year the priority.

The more I read, the less I see a solution other than getting out. Gradual detachment. Get fit. Support our son into university. Time to verify that this is the real situation (it is, but just in case ...) Then move on I suppose.

Ouch.

pinkandblueshoe

I don't think gradual detachment will be very easy.

coolcait

PeacefulWaters wrote: »

I think I've been married to one for 20 years.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3180252/Are-dating-emotional-manipulator-Relationship-experts-reveal-six-warning-signs-prove-relationship-toxic-lead-heartbreak.html

1. Your partner frequently diminishes your feelings and makes you feel like are overreacting


Sometimes we do overreact. I can name umpteen times when - with hindsight - I can see that I overreacted.

2. Your partner puts you down in front of your family and friends


Depends what is meant by that. If he's challenging the traditional 'banter' between sexes - of the men can't cook and women can't parallel park type - then I'd probably agree with challenging that. Or if you were espousing a particular political view which had all of the friends and family looking uncomfortable, I could understand a loving partner trying to smooth it over - in a way which might seem like 'putting you down'.


If it's a more personalised 'putting you down', then that would be a problem. To put it mildly.

3. Your partner blames you for their bad behaviour.


No. We all can control our own behaviour and reactions. Like it or not. That's the straightforward one.

4. Your partner refuses to explain themselves, and often claims 'you wouldn't understand'



Equally, a lot of people, who feel that they are being manipulated or abused, will say that their partner 'doesn't understand' or refuses to understand. They may also say that there is - therefore - no point in trying to explain how they feel. Does that mean that they are also 'emotional manipulators'?


The fact is, this point could be made - in all honesty - by people who are being manipulated; by people who are doing the manipulating; and by people who are in a perfectly normal relationship,
but need to work on their communication skills.

5. Your partner is always one upping you. If you had a bad day at work, their day was worse.


Maybe their day was worse. I've certainly been in a situation where - having shared my moans about the day - I've heard about everyone else's day. And realised that, as bad as my day was, others had it worse. (cf 'overreacting')

6. Your partner will briefly change their ways when you are about to leave


In the context of the link, that clearly means that the manipulator briefly changes.


In the context of real life, it could mean that the person being manipulated tries to 'change their ways' to fit the expectations of the manipulator, but ultimately realises the truth - and stops trying to make unrealistic/unnecessary changes.

I've been far too tolerant.

Firstly, it appears that the OP feels he/she is in a relationship that isn't working out, and which may involve manipulation. There is plenty of good advice on this thread about the way forward.


However, these links and lists are written in such a way that they can deny any alternative point of view.


I've put forward a purely hypothetical 'alternative' point of view above. I am not suggesting that any of those hypothetical points apply to the OP of this thread.

Kayalana99

At end day we do all have good and bad, I speak so poorly of my ex but I know he would jump in front of a bus for an old lady and would never of cheated on me etc yet some of the things Jojo said ring very true (although I think you went just to much into detail for it to applied to a lot of people) like he will never be happy, nothing will ever be good enough for him and he emotionally brought me down to make himself feel better.

This need to be special that Jojo mentioned is another box ticked, I think the major cause was that he was jealous of anyone that would do better then him, always comparing himself to what other people were doing but instead of using that as fire to make himself better he would speak badly of them and put them down to make himself feel better.

At end day as much as I should, I don't hate him. I don't think he is a bad person overall but it most likey stems from some under lining issues that made him think it's normal to treat people this way as I felt it normal to be treated, his sister is nothing less then the devil of him and the trait runs through to her to....

If you really want an alternative point of view if the victim can't see what the 'bully' is doing, perhaps the bully doesn't see it either? It doesn't make it any better by far but I said to him once after we got back together that if I asked him to would be get counselling and he promised me he would, when the time came he refused and said it was me that needed counselling and I think that was the straw that broke the camels back for me...perhaps it's worth thinking about if you do love her after all, perhaps she would be willing to work towards her issues?

Who knows.

PeacefulWaters

Kayalana99 wrote: »

If you really want an alternative point of view if the victim can't see what the 'bully' is doing, perhaps the bully doesn't see it either?

I buy this. Unfortunately it's more destructive as a result because it leads me to self-doubt and I end up challenging my own behaviour as a result.

It doesn't make it any better by far but I said to him once after we got back together that if I asked him to would be get counselling and he promised me he would,

For years she refused joint counselling. I've attended numerous sessions myself, around PTSD, occasional depression and more recently anxiety. They all pointed towards managing issues within my marriage and have provided techniques which I believe I use effectively to try and bring her into a more positive relationship. Only ever successful short term.

when the time came he refused and said it was me that needed counselling and I think that was the straw that broke the camels back for me...perhaps it's worth thinking about if you do love her after all, perhaps she would be willing to work towards her issuus

Two years ago she had a brief online affair. She agreed to a handful of counselling sessions, but only when it became clear I was making arrangements to move out. The sessions were constructive and the outcome effective. For a matter of weeks. Then, like a switch overnight, the pleasant conversation, the affection and the sex switched off.

She blamed menopause. But if I analyse previous behaviour over the years it's similar. If she feels insecure she becomes close to the perfect wife. For a few weeks.

There's an easy solution perhaps, but I cannot look myself in the mirror if I deliberately make somebody feel insecure in different ways.

PeacefulWaters

coolcait wrote: »

Firstly, it appears that the OP feels he/she is in a relationship that isn't working out, and which may involve manipulation. There is plenty of good advice on this thread about the way forward.

However, these links and lists are written in such a way that they can deny any alternative point of view.

I've put forward a purely hypothetical 'alternative' point of view above. I am not suggesting that any of those hypothetical points apply to the OP of this thread.

I appreciate this. I've spent much of te last couple of days trying to do the same. The boxes are still ticked though.